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Thread: Ask the pro, Bobby George-Wool Gathering In Texas

  1. #11
    Senior Member Judy Chute's Avatar
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    Exactly, Darrin...

    One of the best...

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  2. #12
    Senior Member verne socks's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DarrinGreene View Post
    If Bobby is putting it forward in print as a way to solve a problem... you might want to try it

    Take a look at the list of FC's produced out of Blackwater while Bobby was there... Then try it...
    Not doubting Bobby's success or training methods in any way.....maybe one of those things where you need to see or discuss with him to get clarity on when & how it is used. I am all for letting a dog hunt.....as long as he stays in area of fall.

  3. #13
    Senior Member Buzz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by verne socks View Post

    Not doubting Bobby's success or training methods in any way.....maybe one of those things where you need to see or discuss with him to get clarity on when & how it is used. I am all for letting a dog hunt.....as long as he stays in area of fall.
    I think it depends on the dog's confidence level and experience. I see nothing wrong with letting a dog hunt the entire field as long as it keeps hunting hard and isn't a quitter.
    "For everyone to whom much is given, of him shall much be required." -- Luke 12:48

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  4. #14
    Senior Member John Lash's Avatar
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    The way I read it, he said that he was trying to get the dog to secondary select on the shorter bird after the go bird. The dog always wanted to go long for the second. After it'd get the long bird second it would want to go longer still for the third. Other methods were tried and failed. He then decided to let the dog go long second then try for the short third. When the dog failed he just let it go and hunt all over the field, as long as it didn't go back to an old fall or come home without a bird. Once the dog learned about the short bird, it (the dog) would let him select for the short bird second.

    I read somewhere about a big name Pro saying that he felt that the dogs he had that really understood about check down birds got that bird third. I think he meant that they always got it third. I don't remember him saying that once they had learned he could select the short one second.
    John Lash

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  5. #15
    Senior Member John Robinson's Avatar
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    To me, teaching a dog how to check down consitently is one of the hardest things in retriever training. I gained a lot from Dennis Voight's On-line article about 12-15 years ago, but it still is a hard thing.

    Starting with an excelent marker makes it much easier. My first dog was a good, not excellent marker, he was a hard charger, very fast and liked to run long. It took years of having him run right over the bird, only to be stopped without pressure, and easy calm voice and handled to the bird with praise before he got it. On the other hand I have had dogs who naturally checked down but didn't have a lot of punch for those long birds, and I have had excellent markers who remembered on their own where the birds were, long or short.

    As to secondary selection, one of my excelent markers hated to be forced to pick up the short retired second, yet he was able to run long and pin the long retired then come back and pin the short retired last. We finally quit fighting him on it in a trial, and let him do it the way he wanted. That's when he started to win.

    John
    Last edited by John Robinson; 03-02-2013 at 05:55 PM.

  6. #16
    Senior Member Ted Shih's Avatar
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    I guess I read Bobby's article and saw not a particular response to a particular problem, but rather an expression of the need to be open minded when training, and not locked into any particular regime or solution
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    I thought it to be a good article, but apparently a little deep for some. I've seen that approach used over the years on various issues on some very good dogs, in many cases but not all, with success.

    What I got from the article: Read your dog, practice patience when the dog is making an effort, do not reward bad behavior, & sometimes it turns out well . If you recognize your dog has the quality to play at the Bobby George level it's worth a try.
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  8. #18
    Senior Member Ted Shih's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marvin S View Post
    I thought it to be a good article, but apparently a little deep for some. I've seen that approach used over the years on various issues on some very good dogs, in many cases but not all, with success.
    .
    I don't know about the article, but it's pretty deep in here
    Competition does not build character - It reveals it.

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  9. #19
    Senior Member Breck's Avatar
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    would all go to hell if judges had you run a blind tight to the backside of the short retired after picking up a go bird flyer. rut ro.. dog would sure be hunting all over the field then, anywhere but back in at the SR.
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  10. #20
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    John Lash
    I think you are right. I didn't want to get into a full description. I also avoided getting into any theory and why this works.

    Ted Shih
    I think that you are so right, i.e. being open minded.
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