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Thread: History Lesson

  1. #31
    Senior Member road kill's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JDogger View Post
    RK clear your inbox JD
    Done......
    Stan b & Elvis

  2. #32
    Senior Member sick lids's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by road kill View Post
    Ladies and Gentlemen,
    You fight a war to win.

    End of story!


    All the trouble comes when you try to fight civilly.
    I hope this comes across right I do not want to offend any veterans or any one who has served. I hold all who served in high regard.

    I am the first male on both sides of my family to not have served. This was heavily influenced by a grandfather who served in Korea, and an uncle in Vietnam who told me at a very impressionable age what war should be and should not be. I was clearly told not to enlist unless we were attacked by a foreign army. As I get older I regret not enlisting on Sep.12. In repayment for not serving I have served a few who needed help upon coming home.

    Some times I regret asking about it but kids will say the damnedest things.

    Trivia question....A man that was on the cover of Time magazine in Korea had a step son on the cover of the same magazine for Desert Storm. Any one know either of these two men?

  3. #33
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    The japs had no regard for the folks at Pearl Harbor , neither did FDR who knew about it and warned no one there. I am not arrogant, I know I might be wrong about a lot of stuff. In fact being open to other views have made me a lot more humble. I have to question your attack on what seems to be my theology. And equating the Old Testament and David's fighting with today's is dangerous and downright heretical. Israel them was gods army and god used them to execute judgement to nations, god also used other armies to execute his judgement on Israel when they disobeyed. There is no such thing as "god's army" anymore. There is no force in the world that is purely good trying to vanquish a pure evil. I may sound empathetic to the enemy and I will take that as a compliment, that way I can join the long line of other Christians who have turned the other cheek and blessed those who persecuted us. Am I a pacifist though, NO. We should fight in defense of our country, no in the offense in other people's country.

    I am sorry but we will have to disagree on the atomic bomb. I cannot morally justify the killing of innocents to supposively save militants. Japan was ready for surrender, we had a few bombs and we were itching to use them. You won't agree with that but there are just as many or more historians that come to that conclusion over than the old it saved more lives than it took argument.

    If we are to be a country of high morals, we need to keep our standard high in all that we do. Sorry for my perceived arrogance, but there is little humility ever present in an internet forum. I really do enjoy debating and learn a lot from you and others that think I am as dumb as a brick

  4. #34

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    MM: You seem to have a very black/white, good/evil view of the world. You look at our role in WWII as somehow tainted by choices made in the prosecution of that war. A war that was brought to us. Should we have turned the other cheek? You said we bombed/murdered innocent civilians. Do you suppose the Germans that lived in the shadow of the many concentration camps were "innocent"? Was their implied knowledge of what was happening behind the wire washed away by the Treaty of Versailles? The ascent of Hitler did not happen without the approval of many Germans. As for the Japanese they proved early on that virtually every able bodied person on the home islands would have fought to the death without any regard for their own lives. There is nothing to suggest that they were in anyway ready to surrender and in fact the first bomb did not do the trick. Even after the second bomb many on the general staff wanted to continue the war. I won't get into the "innocence" of the Japanese in view of their treatment of conquered people, notably but not limited to the Chinese and POW's. The war was brought to us even IF FDR knew of the pending attack. It was then the job of the military to bring that two front war to an absolute conclusion as rapidly as possible. If you don't think that the allies were "...trying to vanquish a pure evil." I will have to lump you in there with Neville Chamberlain.

  5. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by mudminnow View Post
    and others that think I am as dumb as a brick
    There's a lot of folks on this forum who are quite patriotic & have served their country so folks like yourself & a couple of others on this forum can have stupid views like you espouse.

    I'll ask you, as I did Franco without answer, have you served your country in time of need. I would venture you would have a much different answer if you had been on Omaha Beach, the Battle of the Bulge, Iwo Jima or involved in the Philippine Death March. Several years back I went to the Philippines on a consulting contract, the man who was Executive VP of this Mining Company had been in the death march. He showed me a picture of what he looked like during that march & gave a brief comment of the atrocities visited on the prisoners involved.

    To be quite frank with you - your views make me just more than a little agitated , which is more than a little hard to do.
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  6. #36
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    I have served my country. I grew up here, was educated here, became a productive member of society and employ others. I am serving my country. My ancestors have fought in every war from the French and Indian to WW2. I have seen the pictures of the bullet holes in my grandpa, read the letters he wrote home, and wish I could have met him. I have talked to his friends and other vets who did their job. WW2 was one of the last wars with a clear path to victory. Germans were not completely innocent and neither were the japanese. It was a better war than the ones we fight now with no clear path to victory. Are we going to be at war until terror is gone? Thats impossible. And fightng it with more terror is not the answer. My beef is not with the vets, it is with the people in power that make decisions to send young men into battle for reasons of pride and greed.
    I am all for the defense of our nation and ww2 had that going for it. War is never good, but they have gotten progressively worse since 1945. I do not mean to disrespect those who fought for our defense, I mean to question our motives in everything so that we can forge ourselves into once again a great nation.

  7. #37
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    Geronimo thought the missionaries were gifts from the Great Spirit.

  8. #38
    Senior Member Franco's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mudminnow View Post
    I have served my country. I grew up here, was educated here, became a productive member of society and employ others. I am serving my country. My ancestors have fought in every war from the French and Indian to WW2. I have seen the pictures of the bullet holes in my grandpa, read the letters he wrote home, and wish I could have met him. I have talked to his friends and other vets who did their job. WW2 was one of the last wars with a clear path to victory. Germans were not completely innocent and neither were the japanese. It was a better war than the ones we fight now with no clear path to victory. Are we going to be at war until terror is gone? Thats impossible. And fightng it with more terror is not the answer. My beef is not with the vets, it is with the people in power that make decisions to send young men into battle for reasons of pride and greed.
    I am all for the defense of our nation and ww2 had that going for it. War is never good, but they have gotten progressively worse since 1945. I do not mean to disrespect those who fought for our defense, I mean to question our motives in everything so that we can forge ourselves into once again a great nation.
    That is the best post I've ever read on Potus! Don't you go leaving this place, I'm sure many appriciate what you have to say.
    It's such a shame that in the USA, defending Liberty has become such a heroic deed.

  9. #39
    Senior Member huntinman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mudminnow View Post
    I have served my country. I grew up here, was educated here, became a productive member of society and employ others. I am serving my country. My ancestors have fought in every war from the French and Indian to WW2. I have seen the pictures of the bullet holes in my grandpa, read the letters he wrote home, and wish I could have met him. I have talked to his friends and other vets who did their job. WW2 was one of the last wars with a clear path to victory. Germans were not completely innocent and neither were the japanese. It was a better war than the ones we fight now with no clear path to victory. Are we going to be at war until terror is gone? Thats impossible. And fightng it with more terror is not the answer. My beef is not with the vets, it is with the people in power that make decisions to send young men into battle for reasons of pride and greed.
    I am all for the defense of our nation and ww2 had that going for it. War is never good, but they have gotten progressively worse since 1945. I do not mean to disrespect those who fought for our defense, I mean to question our motives in everything so that we can forge ourselves into once again a great nation.
    Are you saying our military are terrorists?
    Bill Davis

  10. #40
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    No, I am saying our drone strikes that kill innocents, non combatants, and American citizens are acts of terror.

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