The RetrieverTraining.Net Forums The Retriever Academy
Total Retriever Training with Mike Lardy
Hawkeye Media Gunners Up Tritronics Outdoor Media
Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 10 of 12

Thread: right / left hand backs

  1. #1
    Member marsh deacon's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Location
    michigan
    Posts
    38

    Default right / left hand backs

    Looking for drills to teach right / left hand backs
    Bill Ferrans
    HRCH UH Marsh Deacons Shadow Bear

    HRCH UH Free Spirit Marsh Deacon MH (760 points)
    06/24/2000 to 09/05/2010 missed forever

  2. #2
    Senior Member Wayne Nutt's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    Ft. Worth, TX
    Posts
    4,091

    Default

    Should be done as part of three handed casting, which is kinda a misnomer as there are four choices: right over, right hand back, left hand back and left over. Search for some of my videos of either Rowdy (by Pirate) or Hank (by Pirate) where I demo this.

    This is pretty close to step 1 but not quite. Note how at first stand to the right side of the dog for the right hand back, then move over to the left side for the left hand back. This is so that the dog can't help but spin the correct way. After a while you can start standing directly in front. The rope is an aide also.
    http://www.retrievertraining.net/for...ate%29+casting
    Last edited by Wayne Nutt; 03-02-2013 at 02:04 PM.
    Wayne Nutt
    Go Nutts with dog training

    HRCH Patton's Parker Co. Shadow "Shadow"
    HRCH Clineline Hijacker "Jack"
    HRCH Marks a Lot Midnight Hudson, SH "Hudson"-retired
    Castile Creek's Rawhide, SH "Rowdy"

  3. #3
    Senior Member KwickLabs's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2003
    Location
    Roscoe, IL
    Posts
    2,028

    Default

    Here's a link to many drills including variations of Carol Cassity's angle back casting drill called "The Renegade". (search by scrolling down)

    Drill Diagrams (link)
    Jim Boyer www.kwicklabs.com
    KwickLabs Fountain of Youth - Pounce
    MPR UH HRCH Kwick Taffey of Joemac's MH
    HR Kwick Daisy's Spirit Keeper SH
    Kwick Kooly Dew It Allstar SH
    HR Kwick Draw McGraw SH (June, 2007 - May, 2014)

  4. #4
    Senior Member jecartag's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Location
    IN
    Posts
    213

    Default

    I have had very good luck introducing and teaching my dogs (only 2) using food. They are both very food motivated though, and this could vary from dog to dog. For me, TEACHING my dogs to take casts and running DRILLS to solidify it are very different.

    I really try and keep things as positive as I can whenever I teach ANYTHING new. It is much harder for a dog to learn when you have the stress factor. With that being said, my dogs are very food motivated, so it is easy to use food to teach new things. I feed my dogs twice a day; therefore, I would teach casting twice a day. I would have my dog at remote sit and set piles of food out, similar to how you would have bumpers with 3 handed casting. Then, cast left, right, right back, and left back. I also taught angle-backs using this format.

    However, you need to be able to control your pup, so it needs to know what "no" means or some other verbage to correct it when it starts to make its way to the wrong food pile. **During this, my correction is all verbal. Of course, I never use ecollar to teach a dog soemthing new; just to reinforce something he already knows** This does take time, but once things are going well in the house and the TEACHING part is good, then move on to TEACHING with bumpers outside. I do a similar approach with white bumpers on a low-cut lawn (or black bumpers in slight snow cover) as I do with the food piles, which is basically 3 handed casting.

    My dogs made the transition nicely (idk if it is because it is a good idea or if I just got lucky). When I introduced them to the bumpers, I would start out with remote sit and toss one bumper to the proper position (ie, left over). With the dog remaining in remote sit, I would give a LEFT OVER cast; then progress through the other steps to teach basic casting. I would continue to do this a few times and wouldnt just start out with multiple piles. If your dog/pup starts getting confused, then back up a little bit and make it easier for your dog.

    To make it easier, I totally agree with Wayne. It will make it easier for your pup to take right-back and left-back depending on where you are standing when you first start teaching this. Another thing that is very helpful when initially teaching, is to start out with pup out in a remote sit and toss the bumper to the back position. However, when tossing the bumper, toss it either just off to your dogs right, or just off to your dogs left, depending on what type of "back" cast you are going to give (left or right). Throwing the bumper over one side of the dog or another will encourage the dog even more to turn over that shoulder when given a back cast.

    More importantly...to transition through this smoothly, OB needs to be solid. Good luck and I hope I made some sense...seems like I was just rambling
    Jeremy
    Kankakee River HRC

  5. #5
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    Ontario , Canada
    Posts
    312

    Default

    I teach them right on my ff table. I stand at the end and set up the dog on the respective corners. Dog is familiar with table all ready. Under control and easily corrected. Once down pat I then go to drills. But by then they are doing them without error.

  6. #6
    Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    Indiana
    Posts
    32

    Default

    Bill, I have a fence line that I use to teach heeling, I then come back to that fence to teach right and left back. Sit the dog next to the fence, you stand about 5yds away also next to the fence, and cast back. The dog will turn to the side away from the fence to go back. Right one day, left the next, etc. Easier to do than it is to explain how. Give me a call sometime if you want to talk more about it.

  7. #7
    Senior Member KwickLabs's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2003
    Location
    Roscoe, IL
    Posts
    2,028

    Default

    marsh deacon, responses might be more specific if there were a training reference. Have you done three-handed casting, any pile or T work......how about wagonwheel lining and casting drills? Those in progression would lead to eventually teaching angle backs (in a sequencial manner).

    Here are two diagram examples of drills that begin the process of teaching angle backs. One is wagonwheel casting and the second is an extension called "graph casting".

    wagonwheel casting drill


    "graph" casting


    I'm assuming (with the titled dogs in your signature) you know this.....but some don't.
    Last edited by KwickLabs; 03-03-2013 at 11:23 AM.
    Jim Boyer www.kwicklabs.com
    KwickLabs Fountain of Youth - Pounce
    MPR UH HRCH Kwick Taffey of Joemac's MH
    HR Kwick Daisy's Spirit Keeper SH
    Kwick Kooly Dew It Allstar SH
    HR Kwick Draw McGraw SH (June, 2007 - May, 2014)

  8. #8
    Member Oldfield Retrievers's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Location
    Degraff. Ohio
    Posts
    57

    Default

    Thanks Kwicklabs for the marking and casting drills link..............great info!
    Ken Arbogast

  9. #9
    Senior Member Matthew J. Ries's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2012
    Location
    TX, USA
    Posts
    177

    Default

    Here is a dumb question, because I had only taught my 1st dog 3 handed casting, and did a poor job at it, nor did I ever utilize what she did know of casting to solidify it. My 2nd dog I am working through 3 handed casting now and into T work and plan to do a more thorough job/put it to use.

    My question is: 3 handed [quite basic R up, L up (12 oclock) and then R over (3 oclock) and L over (9 oclock)] - when everyone speaks of "angle casting" are you teaching angles at R back (1 & 2 oclock) and L back (10 & 11 oclock)?
    Matthew Ries, Pharm.D.

    Poole's Matador's Maggie May (04/14/2012 - Present)
    Lacakota Super Magnum (02/20/2002 - 07/2010)

  10. #10
    Senior Member KwickLabs's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2003
    Location
    Roscoe, IL
    Posts
    2,028

    Default

    When everyone speaks of "angle casting" are you teaching angles at R back (1 & 2 oclock) and L back (10 & 11 oclock)
    That's correct as far as teaching those angles. However, this is actually part of the process of teaching a dog to take a literal cast....which means take the exact angle directly to the blind. If they are not far off line (quick whistle) you can move a bit (left or right) and make it even simpler. Literal casting (exact angle) is the ultimate goal.

    A young dog needs to see different arm angle casts with correct "reps". Drills have two "places" in training. They are useful for teaching and maintenance. The "real thing" (running cold blinds) reveals and enhances skill levels (in theory). It is incremental.

    For example, this advanced casting drill is designed to work on a narrow range of left and/or right angles backs. All four of my dogs are through transition and this drill will be used in early spring conditioning and refresher sessions.

    Last edited by KwickLabs; 03-03-2013 at 12:49 PM.
    Jim Boyer www.kwicklabs.com
    KwickLabs Fountain of Youth - Pounce
    MPR UH HRCH Kwick Taffey of Joemac's MH
    HR Kwick Daisy's Spirit Keeper SH
    Kwick Kooly Dew It Allstar SH
    HR Kwick Draw McGraw SH (June, 2007 - May, 2014)

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •