The Satire - "If I Had Known!"

[RookieTrainer]

"around the house that will turn into a dog struggling "

Key phrase, IMO this is where most problems start. Maybe a good term is "dogs free will"

Absolutely right, and I realize that NOW. You know, after the problem cropped up.

It didn't help me that everything I was able to get my dog to do was the coolest thing ever, like casting and sitting on the whistle, because it was my first dog. Although I had been told, I didn't fully understand until I tried to get my dog to sit still and be quiet in a duck blind or walk at heel on all four feet into a holding blind at a hunt test that 95% of what you need your dog to do is sit still and be quiet and heel with you under control.

I know better now. I also understand that if you are only going to get a percentage of the standard that you get around the house and in the yard then your standard around the house and in the yard better be pretty dang high. Not to mention that I am no longer absolutely terrified that each time a give a correction I am risking completely ruining my dog.

I think some of you more experienced folks have forgotten a little bit of what it was like trying to feel your way around this whole dog training thing before the whole "the older I get the better I was" syndrome kicked in.

[Hunt'EmUp]

The Winter Pups, have just entered that stage where they start to be interesting, and they're still too young to go into formal training. You'll have these types of threads on the winter stock for another month or two, then they'll waver. As formal training begins. Then we'll see an upswing as the Spring pups, reach the interesting age. Basically people are just blowing off steam, during the let a puppy be a puppy stage, knowing they can't really do anything, until the pup is old enough, but still hoping there might've been some sort of PUPPY PROGRAMING break-thru to help them thru these trying times

[Dave Farrar]

Good story Earl,another quote from a wise man said the only differece between teaching school and dog training was you can tell a dog owner the animal just isn`t working out you may want to replace it,but you sure can`t tell a parent that!!!!!

I teach 1st grade. Many times when a kid isn't working out, replacing the parent would solve the problem. Unlike my dog, I can't pick the pedigree of students.

[road kill]

Interesting.....the premise apppears to be that if we train every puppy the same from the get-go, we will all get the same problem free results.

[Mike Perry]

Interesting.....the premise apppears to be that if we train every puppy the same from the get-go, we will all get the same problem free results.

Excellent comment. I have trained maybe 100 pups to decent and advanced gundog levels, many to advanced HT titles and tell myself with each new one I get to be aware of and watch for the things that might give me issues down the road like vocalizing, bugging, hard mouth etc. and still find one now and then that circumvents my utmost diligence and gives me something to untrain and teach properly.
Each is different and needs to be trained as such.
MP

[Bill Watson]

As a breeder, we have run into simular problems. New owners ask "Will the dog be hyper?" My answer is a question, "Are your children hyper?" Training dogs and training children, to me are very simular. You give them love along with disapline, a goal to strive for and hope for the best. Have a ton of patience! I have a good friend who is a good dog trainer. He used to be a teacher, but the quality of children that he was asked to train was of poor quality. He couldn't take it any more and became a great dog trainer---- he said the dogs had a better start AND a better pedigree. I also have two children (that are now older than most of you) and each have their own querks, but they are mine-----maybe it's in their pedigree. Well, we did the best we knew how, there was no "Raising Children Forum" around at that time. Do the best job you can, with what you have, Bill

[Mary Lynn Metras]

I think one of the problems is that people buy training dvd's and books and don't realize their just guild lines. They want to follow it to the letter and don't understand that not all dogs are alike and you need to tweak those programs to fit your dog. When you have a problem you need to change things up and experiment to see what works best for your dog. A little common scene goes a long way with dog training.

I think having someone telling you something is better than trying to interpret the DVD. And even if you have to tell the person several times. If getting a puppy and it is your first then the person may be inidated with so much info that it does not stick so they ask again.
A note on DVDs which are wonderful but... when you run into a problem and need help they don't assist your individual problem. Nothing like a real person. The best advice given to me was to find someone who knew the retriever world well and could help you. I did that and found two HRC fellows who taught me from the ground up before I knew about DVDs. And they showed me even how the pup should be in the home. Really valuable IMHO. Now I would be the first to admit I love my DVDs and continually refer to them as well as my friends!

[KwickLabs]

Thanks for all the responses. I was caught off guard with the very first post by "huntinman".

"Because they don't know what they don't know... Bill Davis

It seemed to directly answer the question. The intentions of the thread were to find a common theme. After a few posts, the "topic" seemed to reach a general concensus following the theme initially stated by "huntinman".

Thinking back to the first day I joined RTF, a popular topic at that time was Ted's "Sit Means Sit!...or Does It?" As I recall my intentions were to make that a focal point of my new found retriever training hobby.

"Not knowing what I didn't know" was the reason it took me a good four or five years to realize that I didn't know what it meant.....even though the concept was supposed to be a personal focal point.

Another issue which conflicts with the "knack of knowing" is the process of "forgetting" what we supposedly knew at one time.

After further reflection on the responses from this thread, I "Googled" Bill's phrase. If you like to read, this link was informative and humorous.

The Dilemma (link)

If I only knew then what I know now regards, Jim

[Ken Bora]

........, I "Googled" Bill's phrase. If you like to read, this link was informative and humorous.

The Dilemma (link)

If I only knew then what I know now regards, Jim

WOW!!!
"As Dunning read through the article, a thought washed over him, an epiphany. If Wheeler was too stupid to be a bank robber, perhaps he was also too stupid to know that he was too stupid to be a bank robber — that is, his stupidity protected him from an awareness of his own stupidity.

Dunning wondered whether it was possible to measure one’s self-assessed level of competence against something a little more objective — say, actual competence. Within weeks, he and his graduate student, Justin Kruger, had organized a program of research. Their paper, “Unskilled and Unaware of It: How Difficulties of Recognizing One’s Own Incompetence Lead to Inflated Self-assessments,” was published in 1999.[3]
Dunning and Kruger argued in their paper, “When people are incompetent in the strategies they adopt to achieve success and satisfaction, they suffer a dual burden: Not only do they reach erroneous conclusions and make unfortunate choices, but their incompetence robs them of the ability to realize it. Instead, like Mr. Wheeler, they are left with the erroneous impression they are doing just fine.”
It became known as the Dunning-Kruger Effect — our incompetence masks our ability to recognize our incompetence. "

[huntinman]

Good article Jim... Like the tie-in with Donald Rumsfeld's known unknowns and unknown unknowns...