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Thread: Pointing labs!!

  1. #21
    Senior Member Todd Caswell's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mngundog View Post
    I'm sorry I found your list a little amusing and half of it seems like you were trying to think up anything just to add to your list.
    Along with the reasons posted above, if I let that dog flush and chase or break on the shot it pretty much goes against every thing we have trained for.

  2. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Todd Caswell View Post
    Along with the reasons posted above, if I let that dog flush and chase or break on the shot it pretty much goes against every thing we have trained for.
    I train my upland dogs to flush then recover game, I don't feel the need to impede my dogs on the either.

  3. #23
    Senior Member Dave Flint's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mngundog View Post
    I'm sorry I found your list a little amusing and half of it seems like you were trying to think up anything just to add to your list.
    Glad you found it amusing, allow me to respond to your responses (still in red).

    • It’s safer. Only if hunting with unsafe shooters, in which we should never do
    • It doesn’t distract the shooter. That's interesting. I shoot every weekend over spaniels that are in various stages of training. I am asked to do this because I’m known as a very safe shooter in that I maintain an awareness of what’s going on around me at all times. I can assure you that I find it easier to hit when the dog is steady than when it is chasing.

    • It doesn’t block the shot on a low flying bird. True, but not often. I can think of several times while hunting (usually w/ quail) when I didn’t shoot because of a chasing dog. This happens far more often for me than failing to find a crippled rooster, possibly because I train on this skill.

    • It doesn’t flush other birds while chasing a hen. But it going to flush other birds while ranging. Sorry, no comprende.

    • It doesn’t run across the road after a missed bird or hen. In 35 years of upland this is a non issue. If it seems like I’ve had this argument before it’s because I have over many miles of traveling w/ a good friend who was on your side. After a very close call w/ a semi & his shorthaired, he now agrees w/ my point of view on this subject. It’s the only argument I’ve every won w/ him.

    • It marks the fall better. False. Really?, then do you let your duck dog break at the shot too? I lose more crippled ducks than pheasants most years.

    • It saves energy (on misses or fly aways). Four leaps a flush, thats a lot of energy wasted. Again, I don’t know what this means. Are you saying you stop the dog w/in four leaps if it’s a hen or missed? That seems like you’ve got to be more on the ball than I do w/ my approach of sending early on the poorly hit rooster. I typically flush 7 or 8 hens for every rooster.

    • It’s a more “refined” performance. Maybe for the show folks. Lol, also for the spaniel field trialers, you know, those guys whose mission is to identify breed stock for premier pheasant dogs?

    • It doesn’t steal the other dogs retrieves. Stop whistle. Because every dog worth feeding will break sooner or later, I agree w/ you on this one.
    Last edited by Dave Flint; 03-11-2013 at 08:47 AM.
    "The bird hunter watches only the dog, and always knows where the dog is, whether or not visible at the moment. The dog’ nose is the bird hunters eye. Many hunters who carry a shotgun in season have never learned to watch the dog, or interpret his reaction to scent."
    Aldo Leopold, Round River

  4. #24
    Senior Member Swack's Avatar
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    There seems to be a belief among those who have posted that there is a difference between "pointing Labs" and AKC FT Labs. I'm not sure this is true.

    I have no personal experience with the APLA. I only know what I've read about their program and what I've seen of dogs that have been tested in the APLA hunt tests. However, I do have over 25 years of experience hunting pheasant and quail with Labrador retrievers. My first Lab, Blaze, was out of a Super Chief line-bred sire (DaRose's E T by Itchin' to Go x Cup a Soup; Itch was by Air Express who was a Soupy son and Cup a Soup was a Soupy daughter). Blaze's mother was a double grand-daughter of '72 & '75 NAFC and 3x CNFC River Oaks Corky. Those two dogs were arguably the dominate AKC FT dogs of the late '60's and early '70's. There was no such thing as the APLA in those days and nobody to my knowledge was breeding for pointing traits in the Labrador retriever. None the less, Blaze would point a bird that would "sit tight". I didn't teach him or even encourage the point; he did it naturally.

    My second dog, Echo, was out of Wilderness Harley to Go who was a major producer of FT Labs. Harley produced 5 dogs who won a national title (NFC, NAFC, CNF, & CNAFC) qualified for 3 national opens and was a "finalist" in the 1989 National Amateur. Harley was bred on Super Chief and River Oaks Corky lines through his sire, FC-AFC Itchin' to Go and his dam, AFC Black Golds Candlewood Kate (Kate was by NAFC-FC River Oaks Rascal, a Corky son, out of FC-AFC Candlewoods Nellie-B-Good, a Soupy daughter). Echo was one of the strongest pointing Labs I have hunted behind.

    More recently I had a grandson of Ebonstar Lean Mac. Mac produced more AKC FC's than any sire in the history of the Labrador breed. I have also hunted with another grandson of Mac. Both were very strong pointing dogs. I would say that the pointing trait is well ingrained in AKC FT bloodlines.

    I don't think you can say that the differences between the AKC FT Labs and APLA "pointing" Lab as a group is that great. I'd say that you can find as much "diversity" within each group as you can between either group. I don't see the pointing Lab thing as a great sin being perpetrated on the Labrador retriever, as long as their breeder's maintain the rest of the traits that are essential to have in a proper Lab! As I understand it, the testing for the highest title in the APLA includes tradional marking and blind running as well as the pointing test. It was described to me as similar in difficulty to an AKC Senior test.

    My guess is that if many of you took your dogs upland hunting you might find that your traditional AKC FT bred Labs would point upland birds that would sit tight. Those of you that are arguing the pros and cons of flushers vs. pointers are missing the point!

    And yes, the OP is crazy!

    Swack
    Jeff Swackhamer

  5. #25
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    They point because they are scared of the birds.

  6. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Paul "Happy" Gilmore View Post
    They point because they are scared of the birds.
    Either that or their carnivores. I have even seen humans point, give grandma a fly swatter and she'll even point

    On a serious note I enjoyed the history swack....
    Last edited by jeff evans; 03-10-2013 at 10:29 PM.
    "Women are like labradors...,they all have their quarks."~Phil Robertson

  7. #27

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    My dog is sired by a master hunter out of Riks Risky Raider. His dam was a certified pointing lab out of Dakota's Cajun Roux. I did not buy him as a pointing lab but at around 10 months old he started pointing naturally. He will point pheasants when they hold otherwise he is a flusher. Quail he generally points all the time. He has never attempted to point a dove or any waterfowl. He is just one terrific hunting dog that pics up several thousand wild birds each season.

    To Happy Gilmore your quote just shows what a dbag you really are. I could go around saying that those who run down pointing labs and have their noses in the air are all gay but it simply isn't true. Saying "all" is a way out of line. I am sure the % is only around 50%. So it would be a coin flip with you.

  8. #28
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    LOL... Dbag? That's not nice!

    What do you think of this Chessie's point? Is it certifiable? I promise, no lie. It held point until I flushed the bird. Stylish huh?

    Last edited by Paul "Happy" Gilmore; 03-10-2013 at 10:33 PM.

  9. #29
    Senior Member Todd Caswell's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mngundog View Post
    I train my upland dogs to flush then recover game, I don't feel the need to impede my dogs on the either.
    ,

    Mine flush as well but when the bird gets up they plant there butt on the ground, marking the fall, untill sent for the retrieve. Don't care to hunt with a dog that breaks or chases birds.

  10. #30
    Senior Member Dave Flint's Avatar
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    Watching a pointing dog point & relocate multiple times on a moving rooster can be amusing for awhile, but if he does manage to pin it down, it’s not much sport to hit a big, slow pheasant that flushes at your feet. At least for a grown man who’s handled a shotgun a bit.
    "The bird hunter watches only the dog, and always knows where the dog is, whether or not visible at the moment. The dog’ nose is the bird hunters eye. Many hunters who carry a shotgun in season have never learned to watch the dog, or interpret his reaction to scent."
    Aldo Leopold, Round River

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