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Pointing labs!!

23K views 107 replies 40 participants last post by  Howard N 
#1 ·
Am I crazy or is there an over abundant amount of "pointing labs" on the RTF?
 
#2 ·
Your crazy!! :)
 
#4 ·
Can someone help me out here?
What is the reason for a pointing lab?
Aren't upland retrievers supposed to flush game, not point at it?
I expect the boy to flush the bird then sit on his fuzzybutt until sent to retrieve the bird. He will point small game (rabbits, mice) around my yard, but never a bird in the field. He flushes those.
Sorry to sound dumb, just don't get it. Probably just lack of knowledge and/or experience on my part.
 
#10 ·
Pointing labs are the ideal dog for a shooting preserve. They work close & are easier to control than true pointing breeds and the pen raised birds tend to hold much better than wild birds do. The typical customer of these facilities isn’t likely to be a very sophisticated connoisseur of fine dog work so he or she is easily impressed that the dog “tells” them when he’s found a bird. The novice shooter is also more likely to make the shot when they have the chance to get closer & prepare for it. When the bird is hit, the dog (being a Lab) is also more likely to make the retrieve which results in a happy customer.

For wild pheasant hunting however, a hard driving flushing dog will present more birds for the gun.
 
#6 ·
I think we all have our thoughts and it relates to what we do with our dogs. I don't have pointing labs, mine flush, but I have hunted with a number of older gentlemen (70's) that have great pointers allowing them to have a great duck dog and then an extremely hard charging upland dog that will wait for them to catch up and make a shot. As a wild bird hunter too, I can't say that having a dog that sits on the flush is too beneficial as those big roosters routinely hit the ground with legs and will be a mile away when you send your dog. I understand sit to flush for a guide dog on a game farm or for something to put as a requirement for a test but in my eyes (just my personal opinion for my needs) it isn't a trait for a gun dog. Again we all have our own opinions and needs and I would love a good pointing lab that can
 
#15 ·
As a wild bird hunter too, I can't say that having a dog that sits on the flush is too beneficial as those big roosters routinely hit the ground with legs and will be a mile away when you send your dog. I understand sit to flush for a guide dog on a game farm or for something to put as a requirement for a test but in my eyes (just my personal opinion for my needs) it isn't a trait for a gun dog.


There are a lot of reasons for a steady upland dog.
• It’s safer.
• It doesn’t distract the shooter.
• It doesn’t block the shot on a low flying bird.
• It doesn’t flush other birds while chasing a hen.
• It doesn’t run across the road after a missed bird or hen.
• It marks the fall better.
• It saves energy (on misses or fly aways).
• It’s a more “refined” performance.
• It doesn’t steal the other dogs retrieves.

There is typically only one reason given for not having a steady upland dog and that really is inconsequential for one reason; you can send the dog early if you cripple the bird.
 
#11 ·
Your Crazy :)
The Style, flush or point is totally up to what the owner wants. I hunted for years over a pair of flushing labs and loved it. Then I got my Pointing Lab in 2007. I do not think I will get any other type Lab again.
This fall they spent numerous days duck hunting in the morning only to come out of the marsh right into an upland hunt
 
#13 ·
My current dog is a flusher, but after having the opportunity to hunt with a pointing lab last fall. I have no doubt that my next lab will come from pointing lines! As of now, I'm completely sold it. Narrowed the breeders down to a couple. Just waiting for the OK from the wife!
 
#17 ·
In all reality I think that the lab is the most versatile dog out there, everyone here has great points of what works for their needs and the beautiful thing is that we can all find a breeding out there that can give us what we all want and desire.
 
#18 ·
Pointing Labs is easy. Yas just take an afternoon and teach um to stand real still when they smell birds.

There ain't no such thing as a Pointing dog in an asparagus field regards

Bubba
 
#24 ·
There seems to be a belief among those who have posted that there is a difference between "pointing Labs" and AKC FT Labs. I'm not sure this is true.

I have no personal experience with the APLA. I only know what I've read about their program and what I've seen of dogs that have been tested in the APLA hunt tests. However, I do have over 25 years of experience hunting pheasant and quail with Labrador retrievers. My first Lab, Blaze, was out of a Super Chief line-bred sire (DaRose's E T by Itchin' to Go x Cup a Soup; Itch was by Air Express who was a Soupy son and Cup a Soup was a Soupy daughter). Blaze's mother was a double grand-daughter of '72 & '75 NAFC and 3x CNFC River Oaks Corky. Those two dogs were arguably the dominate AKC FT dogs of the late '60's and early '70's. There was no such thing as the APLA in those days and nobody to my knowledge was breeding for pointing traits in the Labrador retriever. None the less, Blaze would point a bird that would "sit tight". I didn't teach him or even encourage the point; he did it naturally.

My second dog, Echo, was out of Wilderness Harley to Go who was a major producer of FT Labs. Harley produced 5 dogs who won a national title (NFC, NAFC, CNF, & CNAFC) qualified for 3 national opens and was a "finalist" in the 1989 National Amateur. Harley was bred on Super Chief and River Oaks Corky lines through his sire, FC-AFC Itchin' to Go and his dam, AFC Black Golds Candlewood Kate (Kate was by NAFC-FC River Oaks Rascal, a Corky son, out of FC-AFC Candlewoods Nellie-B-Good, a Soupy daughter). Echo was one of the strongest pointing Labs I have hunted behind.

More recently I had a grandson of Ebonstar Lean Mac. Mac produced more AKC FC's than any sire in the history of the Labrador breed. I have also hunted with another grandson of Mac. Both were very strong pointing dogs. I would say that the pointing trait is well ingrained in AKC FT bloodlines.

I don't think you can say that the differences between the AKC FT Labs and APLA "pointing" Lab as a group is that great. I'd say that you can find as much "diversity" within each group as you can between either group. I don't see the pointing Lab thing as a great sin being perpetrated on the Labrador retriever, as long as their breeder's maintain the rest of the traits that are essential to have in a proper Lab! As I understand it, the testing for the highest title in the APLA includes tradional marking and blind running as well as the pointing test. It was described to me as similar in difficulty to an AKC Senior test.

My guess is that if many of you took your dogs upland hunting you might find that your traditional AKC FT bred Labs would point upland birds that would sit tight. Those of you that are arguing the pros and cons of flushers vs. pointers are missing the point!

And yes, the OP is crazy!

Swack
 
#25 ·
They point because they are scared of the birds.
 
#27 ·
My dog is sired by a master hunter out of Riks Risky Raider. His dam was a certified pointing lab out of Dakota's Cajun Roux. I did not buy him as a pointing lab but at around 10 months old he started pointing naturally. He will point pheasants when they hold otherwise he is a flusher. Quail he generally points all the time. He has never attempted to point a dove or any waterfowl. He is just one terrific hunting dog that pics up several thousand wild birds each season.

To Happy Gilmore your quote just shows what a dbag you really are. I could go around saying that those who run down pointing labs and have their noses in the air are all gay but it simply isn't true. Saying "all" is a way out of line. I am sure the % is only around 50%. So it would be a coin flip with you.
 
#28 · (Edited)
LOL... Dbag? That's not nice!

What do you think of this Chessie's point? Is it certifiable? I promise, no lie. It held point until I flushed the bird. Stylish huh?

 
#30 ·
Watching a pointing dog point & relocate multiple times on a moving rooster can be amusing for awhile, but if he does manage to pin it down, it’s not much sport to hit a big, slow pheasant that flushes at your feet. At least for a grown man who’s handled a shotgun a bit.
 
#32 ·
I shot a couple dozen in Fort Pierre that way over 20 different pointing dogs. My bitch who's about to drop some pups was far more a pleasure to shoot over than any pointer in my opinion
 
#33 ·
I enjoy hunting over both, really I just enjoy watching dogs work if they point I am all for letting hunters shoulder their shotguns and flushing it, when a dog is trailing a bird I alert hunters and when the dog flushes the bird they are ready.

I love labs and they are very versitile, choose what you like I dont think that one is better than the other.
 
#34 ·
Dang... sure is a lot of hatred toward pointing labs around here. I guess now I'm glad I do more lurking than posting. I didn't realize my pointing BLF pup was so inferior to the rest of the Labs out there. And what's worse is now I know that I'll be considered a "novice" for shooting birds over a pointing dog... :rolleyes:wow.
 
#35 ·
I`m really thinking of starting a couple new breeds myself.One would be the pointing spaniel and the next will be the flushing Brittany.Have had a couple very soft on flush springers that went down the road,shoulda kept them...Haaaa! Jim
 
#37 · (Edited)
Glad I started this thread, it looks like I'm not alone. Enough "pointing", "white", "red" and "silver" labs already! I train between 40 and 50 dogs a year, I also guide pheasant hunters at quite a few different lodges around the state retrieving thousands of birds with my own dogs so I think I am qualified enough to say stick with the real labs they have a lot more trainabilty and a much stronger desire to retrieve!
 
#38 ·
Glad I started this thread, it looks like I'm not alone. Enough "pointing", "white", "red" and "silver" labs already! I train between 40 and 50 dogs a year, I also guide pheasant hunters at quite a few different lodges around the state retrieving thousands of birds with my own dogs so I think I am qualified enough to say stick with the real labs they have a lot more trainabilty and a much stronger desire to retrieve!
I think there are plenty of pointing lab owners out there that would disagree. I bet there are just as many "real labs" out there with poor trainability and weak desire to retrieve.

Lakota's Hurricane Cruz is a 4xGMPR and HRCH champion, and the youngest pointing lab to achieve 4xGMPR. Are you saying you'd rather hunt over a "real lab" than you would over Cruz???

There are a bunch of 3x and 4xGMPR's out there these days... The GMPR is a pretty tough test. So how can you say PL's lack trainability or desire to retrieve???
 
#39 ·
One prominent pointing lab breeder and trainer Guarantees his dogs will point. If they don't point, he will give free training to teach them to point. lol... kind of scratch my head about that one.
 
#42 · (Edited)
In the last ten years plus I think I have read "this thread" at least a hundred times.


Given that I haven't even shot at or hunted an upland bird in over three years, I feel "qualified" to comment as a totally unbiased observer. ;)

However, I won't.....because writing an unbiased comment (or two) will have no impact on anyone that is bias and/or just spending idle time taunting.


"everyone has two choices"


Regards, Jim
 
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