The RetrieverTraining.Net Forums The Retriever Academy
Total Retriever Training with Mike Lardy
Hawkeye Media Gunners Up Tritronics Outdoor Media
Page 10 of 11 FirstFirst ... 891011 LastLast
Results 91 to 100 of 108

Thread: Pointing labs!!

  1. #91
    Senior Member Socks's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Location
    Ypsilanti Twsp, MI
    Posts
    1,063

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Swack View Post
    Socks,

    I can tell you "have a dog in the fight" based on your signature line and the fact that you've replied to folks on this thread three at a time! So with that said, be assured I'm not picking on you. I could easily have replied to a dozen different posters since my early post on this thread.

    For those who are keeping score, I have a bitch out of a GMPR who I'm planning to breed to another GMPR. However, let me go on to say that I didn't select these dogs based on their "pointing Lab" status. Yes, I'm an upland hunter. No, I don't run APLA tests. Yes, it's OK if my dogs point. No, I don't train them to point and it doesn't bother me if they don't. My bitch's sire is also a MH and the dog I'd like to breed her to is a MH, HRCH, and QAA. They have proven themselves capable in traditional retriever testing.

    So, besides the fact that they are titled and have their health clearances, why did I select them to be in my breeding program if not for their pointing ability? Because they meet my standards for conformation!

    Why the heck would you suggest that you won't consider conformation in field bred Labs until the show breeders get the field work right!?!? Do you think "proper conformation" means a Lab should look like many of the show Labs? Not the way I interpret the standard! Just because the show breeders have lost their way doesn't mean we shouldn't try to produce a Lab that meets the standard as we understand it! Actually, the fact that they may have it wrong makes it even more imperative that we get it right!!! You claim you want to insure that the pointing Lab has all of the traditional working talents that "standard" retrievers do. Why not go all out and try to breed them to look like the standard describes a Labrador should look as well?

    I was with you up until you made the statement I emboldened in your quote above. I think you might want to rethink that comment!

    Swack

    P.S. Socks, If I were a betting man, I'd bet the dog in your avatar is a son or grandson of Lean Mac. I had a grandson of Mac who loves to lay on his back like that and get a belly rub!
    Hehe yeah I gues I do have a dog in this fight. No worries about me thinking you're picking on me. I actually think this thread has gone in a decent direction. I chalk it up to people are passionate about their dogs and that can be a good thing. I maybe wasn't that clear on my conformation comment. I've got some friends that have 3 bench/show labs. Their breeder has actually placed in some shows with her line. I really like those dogs, but I would be shocked if they could hunt more than 45 min in the upland and be able to do a long land or water blind because of their conformation. When my dog is next to them they look like two different types of dogs. Now based on old time photos of some of the old FC and show champs from way back that have seen posted on here I think my dog looks more like those dogs than my friends show dogs. Yes I think conformation is important, but my comment was more directed at what is winning at shows now vs the typical field bred conformation that I've seen. Do I really know what I'm talking about? Nope, it's just my views and opinion.

    Yep he's got Lean Mac in him, but he's a great grandson. The lady that owned his sire said that Bubba slept the same way.
    Joe Dickerson

    R.I.P. 4xGMPR HRCH Hunters Marsh Jack Daniels Bubba Jazz MH
    Call Name: JD

  2. #92
    Senior Member Socks's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Location
    Ypsilanti Twsp, MI
    Posts
    1,063

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by hotel4dogs View Post
    But can you train them to seat on a duck???
    One of these days I'll find the video of my dog doing this.
    Joe Dickerson

    R.I.P. 4xGMPR HRCH Hunters Marsh Jack Daniels Bubba Jazz MH
    Call Name: JD

  3. #93

    Default

    Swack, you are right on! I had a female whose grandmother was line bred River Oaks Corky. When I got her I knew nothing about training retrievers and totally trained her myself. We learned, unlearned and learned together on our journey together. She ended up with 2 open 2nds and 2 amateur 2nds and other places. Although some VERY knowledgeable (national finishers) couldn't see how she didn't win on at least one occasion, she never got her first place. She went six for six in attaining her MH title. I truly don't believe that I have ever seen a lab who marked better than she did. On more than one occasion on a retired gun in a FT, she ran right at an obstacle, leaped it, turned 90 degrees in the air and picked up the bird. She pointed the first WILD rooster she ever encountered at 5 months of age. On one trip in ND on public land in snow covered CRP she pointed 28 times in one day. Many hens, but others were roosters, as we made the long trek back to the truck with my limit. Nobody who didn't see her hunt pheasants, or even ruffed grouse, would have had a clue that she pointed. I then bred her to another pointing lab who had his AFC and was 1/2 point short of his FC when he had an injury. Her daughters pointed. The one I kept won 3 Q's out of five (two at her last double header), placed in her other two attempts, and went 3 for 3 toward her MH, before I quit running MH. She became very hard of hearing at an extremely young age, so I couldn't follow through in field trials. I will be looking for another pointing lab, who can do all of the difficult retriever work , both in competition and hunting for waterfowl and upland birds. People who fear pointing in their FT dogs just don't understand that that trait only shows up on an upland hunt when they are quartering in front of a hunter. I definitely believe that it is in MANY great FT lines.

  4. #94
    Junior Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Posts
    13

    Default

    I have had labs that point naturally. They are the ultimate dog for upland hunting. No running in the field after a flusher. Of course the lab is a better retriever than a setter or pointer. The style of point isn't as good as the setters I used to run. But the pointing lab works closer so it is easier to get over to the dog to shoot the bird. With setters I always flushed the bird. With labs I give the command to flush. That way everything about the hunt works in my favour.

  5. #95
    Senior Member Dave Flint's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    Central Texas
    Posts
    514

    Default

    I guess Iím never going to understand why someone would want to hunt pheasants w/ a pointing dog. Pheasants and flushing dogs were made for each other.

    On the other hand, I would like to hear from anyone who has tried hunting grouse w/ a pointing Lab. Iíve used both Setters & Springers and it seems like when Iíve got a Setter in front of me, I wish I had a flusher to get in there so I could stay outside & shoot. When I use a Springer (or retriever), I hear a lot more flushes than I ever see.

    A close working dog that would point until sent in for the flush & could be trusted to find everything that I do manage to scratch down sounds like a pretty nice idea. Anyone got experience w/ a PL on Grouse?
    "The bird hunter watches only the dog, and always knows where the dog is, whether or not visible at the moment. The dogí nose is the bird hunters eye. Many hunters who carry a shotgun in season have never learned to watch the dog, or interpret his reaction to scent."
    Aldo Leopold, Round River

  6. #96
    Senior Member gdgnyc's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Location
    NY
    Posts
    2,333

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Dave Flint View Post
    I guess I’m never going to understand why someone would want to hunt pheasants w/ a pointing dog. Pheasants and flushing dogs were made for each other.

    On the other hand, I would like to hear from anyone who has tried hunting grouse w/ a pointing Lab. I’ve used both Setters & Springers and it seems like when I’ve got a Setter in front of me, I wish I had a flusher to get in there so I could stay outside & shoot. When I use a Springer (or retriever), I hear a lot more flushes than I ever see.

    A close working dog that would point until sent in for the flush & could be trusted to find everything that I do manage to scratch down sounds like a pretty nice idea. Anyone got experience w/ a PL on Grouse?
    There was a fellow here on Long Island who had German shorthaired pointers. He taught his dogs to flush the bird on command after pointing them. I haven't met anyone else who does this. Interesting guy, he and his wife hunted together, carried Parkers.
    "I love the rod and gun and where they take me."

    "Do not judge a man until you have walked two moons in his moccasins."

  7. #97
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    Fall City, WA
    Posts
    4,622

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by gdgnyc View Post
    There was a fellow here on Long Island who had German shorthaired pointers. He taught his dogs to flush the bird on command after pointing them. I haven't met anyone else who does this. Interesting guy, he and his wife hunted together, carried Parkers.

    Not indifferent for allowing your dog to relocate on command. Depends upon how you train it.

  8. #98
    Senior Member Dave Flint's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    Central Texas
    Posts
    514

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by gdgnyc View Post
    There was a fellow here on Long Island who had German shorthaired pointers. He taught his dogs to flush the bird on command after pointing them. I haven't met anyone else who does this. Interesting guy, he and his wife hunted together, carried Parkers.
    I've hunted w/ a few nice GSPs. They were very good retrievers compared to other pointing dogs but many times when I've hit grouse, it was just a "poke & pull" shot & I had no idea if I'd hit it through the trees until the dog came back w/ it. Public land grouse hunting is challenging enough that I can't abide losing a bird hence the interest in a Lab to find them.

    I'll bet a good PL would be a good fit.
    "The bird hunter watches only the dog, and always knows where the dog is, whether or not visible at the moment. The dogí nose is the bird hunters eye. Many hunters who carry a shotgun in season have never learned to watch the dog, or interpret his reaction to scent."
    Aldo Leopold, Round River

  9. #99
    Senior Member Scum Frog's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2012
    Location
    Ottawa Valley, Ontario, Canada
    Posts
    203

    Default

    I've hunted grouse with a Lab for years...working on dog #2.
    The secrete is to have the dog work close in range, 10 yards max in the thick stuff.
    I know an Englisg Setter is the classic grouse dog, I just don't see to many grouse staying put with a dog's nose a couple feet away on point around here. Up north maybe, they are fools hens up there. Down here, they can be very quick to flush.
    From my perpective, the grouse focus on escaping the dog and have no clue about the hunter thus providing some shooting opportunities that you might not get otherwise. ie Flush away from dog, up a tree or towards the hunter.
    This is especially true if you can work your dog on one side of cover/edge while you hunt the other side.
    Range control is the key.
    Labrador Retriever, a 20g & grouse...is there a better combination?

  10. #100
    Senior Member Dave Flint's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    Central Texas
    Posts
    514

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Scum Frog View Post
    From my perpective, the grouse focus on escaping the dog and have no clue about the hunter thus providing some shooting opportunities that you might not get otherwise. ie Flush away from dog, up a tree or towards the hunter.
    I don't know if I believe that. I swear they wait until I reach down to pick up my hat when it gets knocked off.

    Then there was the time I leaned my gun against a tree to take a leak, good thing my boots are waterproof I guess....
    "The bird hunter watches only the dog, and always knows where the dog is, whether or not visible at the moment. The dogí nose is the bird hunters eye. Many hunters who carry a shotgun in season have never learned to watch the dog, or interpret his reaction to scent."
    Aldo Leopold, Round River

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •