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Thread: 2 birds at once

  1. #11
    Senior Member John Robinson's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gdgnyc View Post
    To be fixed only if you see it as a problem. There are several ,people who don't view this as a problem.
    Like you, I don't see it as a problem, except I realize that in the real world there are probably many, including judges, who wouldn't agree with me on this, so I wouldn't risk it. I think in training a stronger come-in whistle with a nick if the dog hesitates or turns toward the other bird on the return. You would have to be careful not to create a hot spot by the other bird, otherwise the dog might be reluctant to go pick it up after.

    John

  2. #12
    Senior Member thelast2's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gdgnyc View Post
    To be fixed only if you see it as a problem. There are several ,people who don't view this as a problem.
    It is a problem if you gave a here whistle and the dog ingnored it, then went and retrieved the second bird.
    Jesse

    HR SHR JR'S GUNNY DOG "ERMEY"
    SR JR'S MARSH MANGLING MINDY
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  3. #13
    Senior Member John Robinson's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by thelast2 View Post
    It is a problem if you gave a here whistle and the dog ingnored it, then went and retrieved the second bird.
    What if he didn't give a come-in whistle? How would you judge it? Can you find a rule that clearly deals with this situation. Like I said I'm interested because one of my dogs could do this. It's just an interesting hypothetical that doesn't seem black and white to me.

    The thing I find most interesting about this from a hunt test viewpoint, is that I would value such a dog highly in real hunting. I don't know about you guys, but the reality of duck hunting is that most ducks fall within, or pretty close to the decoys, and the less my dog is ouin the field, the more I am concentrating on incoming ducks, and less likely the ducks will be flairing off my working dog. Like I said earlier, I give that dog bonus points.

    John
    Last edited by John Robinson; 03-12-2013 at 02:54 PM.

  4. #14
    Senior Member thelast2's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by John Robinson View Post
    What if he didn't give a come-in whistle? How would you judge it? Can you find a rule that clearly deals with this situation. Like I said I'm interested because one of my dogs could do this. It's just an interesting hypothetical that doesn't seem black and white to me.

    John
    Im not saying anyone training program is right or wrong. If a person chooses to have their dog pick up every bird in the field at the same time more power to them. I dont know of any training programs that condone such behavior, if anyone knows of one let it be known! Definitly not if a command such as the recall whistle has been used and ingnored. I suppose if I was in the judges shoes, a come in whistle was blown and ignored I would definitly have to take points for that. If no recall command or whistle was given and the dog retrieves multiple marks at the same time with no clear rules as how to deal with it I would have to let it go.
    Jesse

    HR SHR JR'S GUNNY DOG "ERMEY"
    SR JR'S MARSH MANGLING MINDY
    JR'S LNR THICKET THRASHING TRIXIE

  5. #15
    Senior Member gdgnyc's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by thelast2 View Post
    Im not saying anyone training program is right or wrong. If a person chooses to have their dog pick up every bird in the field at the same time more power to them. I dont know of any training programs that condone such behavior, if anyone knows of one let it be known! Definitly not if a command such as the recall whistle has been used and ingnored. I suppose if I was in the judges shoes, a come in whistle was blown and ignored I would definitly have to take points for that. If no recall command or whistle was given and the dog retrieves multiple marks at the same time with no clear rules as how to deal with it I would have to let it go.
    I see that you are in Alaska. Picture yourself as a guide with maybe 2 people in your hunting party and you have one dog that is going in and out of cold water to do retrieves. Let's say you have four birds down in the water. What would you prefer?

    There is at least one guide on this forum who wants his dog to pick up two birds at once and no I won't mention his name. I am friends with another guide who also wants his dogs to do the same. I think that their point of view is valid.

    I also see the other point of view, that the dog should return with one bird at a time.

    I don't believe that there is only one correct answer. I have a feeling that if more people hunted their retrievers there might be more agreeing with the efficiency of fetching two birds at once. Now mind you, I didn't really say what I train for or what I really think is right. I do have an open mind.
    "I love the rod and gun and where they take me."

    "Do not judge a man until you have walked two moons in his moccasins."

  6. #16
    Senior Member duk4me's Avatar
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    Two birds at once? Well that is every dawgs dream.
    I have learned I need these dogs much more than they need me. Tim Bockmon

  7. #17
    Senior Member thelast2's Avatar
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    I don't believe that there is only one correct answer. I have a feeling that if more people hunted their retrievers there might be more agreeing with the efficiency of fetching two birds at once. Now mind you, I didn't really say what I train for or what I really think is right. I do have an open mind.
    Im not saying there is only one correct answer either. Common practice is dog is sent to retrieve a single bird at a time, training programs at least the ones im familiar train this way. While I have witnessed the guides you refer to, I have also seen the guide's dogs that are trained to break on the first shot, to retrieve. I dont condone that behavior anymore than retrieving multiple marks at the same time. I have said it before and will again, a person who has done any amount of training will devise there own methods to accomplish their own goals. It usually only takes one dog to realize the shortcomings in ones training methods....LMAO. Regards from an avid waterfowler who's dog is trained to pick up one mark at time.
    Jesse

    HR SHR JR'S GUNNY DOG "ERMEY"
    SR JR'S MARSH MANGLING MINDY
    JR'S LNR THICKET THRASHING TRIXIE

  8. #18
    Senior Member Gary Southall's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by duk4me View Post
    Two birds at once? Well that is every dawgs dream.
    and if the birds were sisters.........

  9. #19

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    Cant it be both ways. For example if a dog has a tendency to pick up two at once but can also be properly trained on a come in whistle, why cant it pick up two when hunting and one at a time in a test. Blow the come in whistle at the test not while hunting and nothing is being ignored. Also I completely believe they 100% now the difference between hunting and test/training/trial would not think it would be very hard to establish the difference especially with a well conditioned come in whistle. Don't know that anyone would teach to pick up more then one or even how you would but if you dog is inclined to do both why not have the best of both worlds?

  10. #20
    Senior Member Wayne Nutt's Avatar
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    I suspect there will be a wider separation of the birds in a ht situation than in hunting. Without actually knowing, I'll bet the dog is running seasoned or senior. The birds will be fairly wide apart.
    Wayne Nutt
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