2 birds at once

[rbr]

While the rules don't specifically mention it, it is viewed as a switch.

Bert

[mjh345]

While the rules don't specifically mention it, it is viewed as a switch.

Bert

Says who?
//

[copterdoc]

In HRC, they tie a ribbon on the diversion bird for a reason. Many dogs have delivered both the diversion and the mark at the same time, and passed.

As long as the one on the outside, has the ribbon.

[rbr]

A diversion is not a mark (at least in AKC rules)

The OP was talking about a dog going for the long bird and picking up the short on the way back to the line. He established a hunt on the long bird
and was recalled (handled in) and then established another hunt.

[mjh345]

A diversion is not a mark (at least in AKC rules)

The OP was talking about a dog going for the long bird and picking up the short on the way back to the line. He established a hunt on the long bird
and was recalled (handled in) and then established another hunt.

Bert, I'm not arguing with you, just looking for clarification. It appears you are saying the dog would be dropped for a switch since it hunted two areas.
I would argue that it is not a switch since the dog retrieved two birds on his two hunts.
I consider a switch to be when a dog goes to an AOF, establishes a hunt then leaves that AOF WITHOUT coming up with a bird to go hunt another AOF

[Wayne Nutt]

If it was a seasoned or senior hunt test, the birds (marks) would be widely separated and not returning promptly and directly would be a serious fault, IMHO. I looked in the HRC rule book and didn't see anything that directly applied. Nevertheless, a dog going a 100 yds or so off a reasonable return line would not be an obedient dog, IMHO.

Plus the purpose of the double is to demostrate memory. Maybe he did that but maybe not.

If memory bird was such that he could wind the bird on the way in, was that showing memory?

This is such an easy thing to fix. I am not a judge, so maybe one or two experienced judges could tell us what they think.

[John Robinson]

While the rules don't specifically mention it, it is viewed as a switch.

Bert

Viewed by some as a switch. Whether or not to call it a switch was the focus of the debate in the field trial I mentioned on an earlier thread. The general consensus we came to was that if the dog dropped the original bird, then picked up the other bird, it was a switch. If the dog dropped the original bird, but picked it back up before the other bird it wasn't a switch. This is where it is helpful to put drakes at one station and hens the other. This was just field trial gallery "lawyers" arguing an offbeat point, it would totally be up to the judges that day.

I personally would not drop that dog, others might. Like I said, as a handler I'll just avoid the whole situation by calling my dog in away from that bird if it looks like he might try that.

John

John

[John Robinson]

A diversion is not a mark (at least in AKC rules)

The OP was talking about a dog going for the long bird and picking up the short on the way back to the line. He established a hunt on the long bird
and was recalled (handled in) and then established another hunt.

Bert, I think you misread the OP, I think he is worried about a situation that hasn't happened yet, but would likely be the dog going out and picking up the long bird (with or without a hunt), returning with the long bird in his mouth (with or without be called back to the line), stumbing on a short mark (presumably a tight line, close to the long bird line), and picking up the short bird without dropping the long bird, bringing two birds back to the handler without dropping either bird.

This would be hard to judge in a field trial as we are placing dogs against each other, I wouldn't know how to score that mark, but less problematic in a hunt test, like I said, "bonus points" for the dog.

John

[Good Dogs]

In a AKC HT a "switch" is defined as a dog leaving a hunt or dropping a bird to go after another. Some years ago a friend had a lab who would routinely pick up the diversion bird on a return w/o dropping the bird in mouth. This past weekend the dog picked up the poison bird blind, then ignored commands to come in and picked up the flyer as well. In the first case, no foul, no harm. In the later, yer out. While it might not cause the dog to be dropped, depending on the situation, it's a habit that - as in the later example - could cause a problem. As suggested, a come-in whistle means just that.

[copterdoc]

The dog has to act like a woman.

It has to change it's mind. Like right when you are ready to leave for dinner, they decide to wear a different dress. Or even worse, when they have to leave the party, and go change because somebody else is wearing the same thing.

There is no penalty for picking up whisky, when they go out for milk.