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Thread: Friday Starts for Am

  1. #21
    Senior Member Jennifer Henion's Avatar
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    Bad for the sport argument also holds for Derby starts on Friday. Amateurs who want to try field trials are likely going to want to start at the first rung of the ladder (derby).

    There are four derbies in a row over the next 5 weeks in my area and all 4 start on Friday. Luckily for me, I own my own business and can manage to get away, but I'll have to leave on Thursday to travel the 5 hours to get to each event. That's work all day Thursday, then drive 5 to 7 hours, then get up early for Friday derby start. How many people are in the unique position to handle that schedule just to get involved in the sport of Field Trials?

    It is definitely a limiting factor. But by the way the judges talk about large entries and needing more days to judge the stakes fairly, maybe no one cares if Friday starts are a limiting factor... Obvioulsy there are lots of entries for Am and Open already.

  2. #22
    Senior Member fishduck's Avatar
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    In my area the Derby judges are often the same judges for the Qualifier. This typically requires a Friday start for one of the minor stakes. The clubs are saving money by using one set of judges. Some clubs don't have the people to man 2 minor stakes simultaneously. I have ran a self marshalled derby and can promise it was in no way form or fashion friendly to a newcomer.
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  3. #23
    Senior Member Ted Shih's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jennifer Henion View Post
    Bad for the sport argument also holds for Derby starts on Friday. Amateurs who want to try field trials are likely going to want to start at the first rung of the ladder (derby).

    There are four derbies in a row over the next 5 weeks in my area and all 4 start on Friday. Luckily for me, I own my own business and can manage to get away, but I'll have to leave on Thursday to travel the 5 hours to get to each event. That's work all day Thursday, then drive 5 to 7 hours, then get up early for Friday derby start. How many people are in the unique position to handle that schedule just to get involved in the sport of Field Trials?

    It is definitely a limiting factor. But by the way the judges talk about large entries and needing more days to judge the stakes fairly, maybe no one cares if Friday starts are a limiting factor... Obvioulsy there are lots of entries for Am and Open already.

    You need to look at it from the club's perspective. Also, from a more global perspective. There are lots of things to consider and no easy answers.

    First, I find that more amateurs are getting started in the qualifying than the derby. So, maybe a Friday derby start is - in the long run - better for the Amateur. (Although, my club starts the Q on Friday.)

    Second, our grounds would not accommodate more than two stakes at a time. This is true for many clubs.

    Third, we barely break even financially with two sets of judges judging two stakes each. If we needed to add a third or fourth set of judges - and hire bird boys to man those stakes - assuming we had sufficient grounds available, we would need to increase our entry fees to over $100 per stake to break even. Moreover, we have a hard enough time finding two good sets of judges, three or four would be next to impossible.

    Fourth, if you stay in the game, you will find that while you can compete with your dog for a less than a year in the derby, you can compete in the Amateur for many years to come. So, in my opinion, having the Amateur start and finish during the weekend is the biggest priority.

    Fifth, when judges talk about needing more time - from my perspective at least - it is for Amateurs of over 60 dogs. For 60 dogs or less, two days is sufficient. I could - if I had to do so - judge 70 or more dogs in two days, but tests would be nasty and callbacks would not be generous.

    Sixth, I think we are mostly talking about a very limited situation. There are very few Friday starts for the Amateur.



  4. #24
    Senior Member Jennifer Henion's Avatar
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    I know, there's always the issue of man power and time. As an integral member of a local volunteer organization, I'm always hearing about "possibilites" for getting more folks involved and doing more kinds of fundraising events. But the reality is, there is only so much manpower and time and willingness to put out the effort to harness those possibilities. That's why I ended my post saying maybe it's not an issue at all if there are already such large entry numbers for the Am and OPen. The only real solution is to have more clubs and more events - but that would mean more man power and time and effort. Life is busy enough these days...

  5. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ted Shih View Post
    It is a lot of work to put on a field trial, so there is a part of me that believes that the club that puts on a trial should be able to run it whenever they choose - and could start any day of the week.

    1. It is a disservice to the sport to cut out working Amateurs - such as Marion. The sport is shrinking, not growing, and we should encourage as much participation as possible.
    As someone who has taken more Fridays off to work the trial rather than run a dog I find this discussion to limited in scope. It's harder to get folks to work than it is to get folks to try to run a club or a dog in whatever stake. The folks who work for the club are the ones making a sacrifice. I was always able to make adjustments in my schedule for those dogs that deserved the Friday opportunity.

    Quote Originally Posted by yelm labs View Post
    Friday starts for Amateurs are a disservice to the sport. Amateurs who have full time forty hour a week jobs have limited time off. They are not going to be able to take all those Fridays off to run their dog. I know I canít. It makes the game favor those amateurs who either own their own business and can take off when ever they want or those that are retired.
    This is an argument you advanced many years ago when talking of the folks who owned their own business or were retired when running the Open or whatever minor stake was held on Friday. No one found your argument valid at that time. So I'll ask a couple of questions - 1) if your time is so limited how come you show up on Entry Express running trials up to 1500 miles from your home base?, 2) the club you are now a principle in is putting on a spring trial - Open & Q only, does that solve the Amateur stake issue?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ted Shih View Post


    Sixth, I think we are mostly talking about a very limited situation. There are very few Friday starts for the Amateur.


    Agree, Grounds & Friday workers are a bigger issue than entries in most Am's
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  6. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jennifer Henion View Post
    There are four derbies in a row over the next 5 weeks in my area and all 4 start on Friday. Luckily for me, I own my own business and can manage to get away, but I'll have to leave on Thursday to travel the 5 hours to get to each event. That's work all day Thursday, then drive 5 to 7 hours, then get up early for Friday derby start. How many people are in the unique position to handle that schedule just to get involved in the sport of Field Trials?
    I judged a Derby with Gus Rathert just after he had won the National Am with Rebel Chief - this was his comment - one local trial most of the rest are 300-500 miles away - training grounds are fast disappearing - so no more trial dogs - by the attitude expressed on the forums & the RAC he's no longer up to date enough to judge, truly , & a real loss to the sport.
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  7. #27
    Senior Member rboudet's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jennifer Henion View Post
    Bad for the sport argument also holds for Derby starts on Friday. Amateurs who want to try field trials are likely going to want to start at the first rung of the ladder (derby).

    There are four derbies in a row over the next 5 weeks in my area and all 4 start on Friday. Luckily for me, I own my own business and can manage to get away, but I'll have to leave on Thursday to travel the 5 hours to get to each event. That's work all day Thursday, then drive 5 to 7 hours, then get up early for Friday derby start. How many people are in the unique position to handle that schedule just to get involved in the sport of Field Trials?

    It is definitely a limiting factor. But by the way the judges talk about large entries and needing more days to judge the stakes fairly, maybe no one cares if Friday starts are a limiting factor... Obvioulsy there are lots of entries for Am and Open already.
    We switched our Derby to Friday to give the hunt testers the opportunity to run the Q. And it worked. They are more likely to run a Q on Sat. than having to take a day off work to run on Friday.

  8. #28
    Senior Member BBnumber1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by fishduck View Post
    This does in no way apply to me because I don't run major stakes so take it FWIW. Wouldn't most people plan on still being in the game Monday? Although less folks would need to be there Monday most working class stiffs don't have that flexibility in their schedule. Most would take off Monday just in case. You still end up with the same problem. IMHO the impact is the same.
    I disagree with the statement that the problem is the same. The reason I say that is because many people I know have the flexibility to schedule the Monday off, and if they go out, show up for work, and save that days vacation. These are not business owners, just folks with flexible bosses, who won't require them to stay home if they are available to work.
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  9. #29
    Senior Member EdA's Avatar
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    Perhaps Monday would not be a problem for the few contestants left but for the trial giving club and volunteer help it is all but impossible.

  10. #30

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    Just for the sake of comparison most Ontario Clubs who have a Friday start begin with Open. Amateur and one of the minor stakes start on Saturday. There has always been an effort to support the 'Amateur' through this approach.

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