The RetrieverTraining.Net Forums The Retriever Academy
Total Retriever Training with Mike Lardy
Hawkeye Media Gunners Up Tritronics Outdoor Media
Page 5 of 6 FirstFirst ... 3456 LastLast
Results 41 to 50 of 53

Thread: Dog Trainers( Sit Means Sit)

  1. #41
    Senior Member DarrinGreene's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Souf Joisy
    Posts
    2,801

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Howard N View Post
    I can't see it as bad if we get a politically correct collar method that is acceptable to the Molly Minivans of the world. To me it just has to work with most dogs and be humane. Heck, Wales and Australia might change their laws and allow collar training.

    Ken, could this be the beginning of the end for your favorite training tool?
    That would be a no to the rope Howard. Or at least I haven't gotten good enough to make it go away! I do recommend a 25ft flexi lead though. If you think those of us who regularly use check cords are bad at it, you should see Molly Minivan!
    Darrin Greene

  2. #42
    Senior Member DarrinGreene's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Souf Joisy
    Posts
    2,801

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by featherqwest View Post
    Advise is to go train with good people who know obedience. The franchise thing is a joke. Same as a computer franchise I once purchased and dropped. It's always about the money and no quick solutions for any dog. I train with some very good obedience people right now. We are not using the EC right now because but going back to the old style of slip collar and learning hand and voice commands. Since we are on the subject does anyone clicker train their field dogs. I have found that this is a problem when you do into the field. I don't do it but the agility people insist on it??
    My demo dog is trained with markers and has had only very minor issues transitioning to the field. At 10.5 mos old she's into land pattern blinds and getting ready for swim by then when the water here warms up. Very easy to overcome the little challenges if you understand the theory.
    Darrin Greene

  3. #43
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Location
    Central Jersey
    Posts
    567

    Default

    Molly Minivan!

    ....Love it
    HOLD FAST
    Winter is coming
    Duck hunters like other duck hunters at a Holiday party, cocktail hour or a school play..........they hate each other @ 5am

  4. #44
    Junior Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Posts
    13

    Default

    I do believe that fred's methods are much harder on the dog than Pat Nolan

  5. #45
    Senior Member Pam Spears's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    Western Colorado
    Posts
    695

    Default

    The trainer I worked with did this: on the day we started the program, she brought our Dogtra collar. Put it on the dog, waited til he was ignoring us and fooling around, then began tapping the collar (set on it's lowest setting.) No reaction of course, very low stimulation. We kept turning up the setting and tapping until the dog cocked his head, obviously feeling *something* but he wasn't sure what it was. That was our initial setting for that dog (different dogs react at different levels.) From then on, he was to wear the collar all day, every day. We were to carry the transmitter all day, every day. Every command was to be followed immediately by tap-tap-tapping with the transmitter until he complied. She specifically told us to do this from the very first time we gave a command, even a new one. So the dog would be told to sit, then be tapped with the collar until he did, even though he had no idea what the command meant. I found that a little odd. Then after 3 months of this, dog doing very well BTW, she told me we would never stop using the collar. I could not envision having my dog wear his e-collar every waking moment of every day, and me having to carry a transmitter all the time: just not realistic. About that time we started getting involved in training for hunt tests, and watched SmartWorks. The dog was quite obedient by then and didn't need the collar for every day obedience, so we just transitioned into the more traditional collar usage that most here use. Just my own experience, but I wonder whether this was a standard SMS approach or just that of our trainer, who shortly thereafter left the SMS program and went out on her own.
    Pam
    HR Roughwater Stacked & Packed, "Babe," MH, CD, RN, CGC, WDQ

  6. #46
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    Nevada
    Posts
    1,138

    Default

    I have met the guy. My impression was that he loved training dogs and found a way to make a living out of it. Incredible idea! Making a franchise out of it. In addition to fully checking out the particular trainer with whom you'll be working, you need to think about your goals. Do you want the put a MH on your dog or run FT??? Then you're going to exceed the scope of a SMS trainer. But since sound basic obedience is the foundation for anything you might want to do with your dog, and if someone is following Fred's methods, they'll help you both get off to a good start.

  7. #47
    Senior Member badbullgator's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Location
    somewhere between Boca Grande and Mims
    Posts
    7,182

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Howard N View Post
    One thing that got me about Fred, is that he came across as a trainer, someone who said he could train dogs. I still remember the video of him running and handling at a NAHRA intermediate test. His dog was not quite trained to the intermediate level and his timing as a handler was bad. I thought it was a poor performance for a professional dog person.

    I could never take him seriously as a retriever person, just another bull $h!t slinger.


    Thought I'd add a PS later: I never had any problems with the way Fred used the collar. I believe it works and it's similar to the way Pete, Jamie the Pack Leader, Pat Nolan do; and the way the Dogtra obedience book that comes with their collars says to do it. It's not our mainstream Lardy method. Or the Smart Work method, Carr method, or Dobbs method either. But it works for some people and dogs. The more I can learn the better and that's a big reason I'm still on the RTF after all these years.

    I'm not from Missouri but I still want someone to "show me" when they're touting their method. That video, and others, showed me that Fred didn't know what he was doing training and playing in my game. Anyone can BS, but like that signature line from someone here says: "The bull $h!t stops when the tailgate drops."

    There it is. Fred tried to back up his method by posting videos here and I must say it was very umderwelming. That said I do think his system can work for non-retrievers. He can probably turn out a very obedient dog that will suite the average pet owner. A hunting/testing/trial dog not so much.
    Views and opinions expressed herein by Badbullgator do not necessarily represent the policies or position of RTF. RTF and all of it's subsidiaries can not be held liable for the off centered humor and politically incorrect comments of the author.
    Corey Burke

  8. #48
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    Idaho
    Posts
    2,811

    Default

    There it is. Fred tried to back up his method by posting videos here and I must say it was very umderwelming. That said I do think his system can work for non-retrievers. He can probably turn out a very obedient dog that will suite the average pet owner. A hunting/testing/trial dog not so much
    I'll have to disagree with that Cory

    There is a huge misconception about the process. Saying you can't get a dog to a high trial or HT standard is not true. I don't know exactly what Pat or Fred do but I do know I do something similar so I would file it in the same category pretty much. A high standard of obedience weather you use only food,e collar or pinch collar is still a high level of obedience as long as you use the same standard for each of those. This is only another way of introducing obedience at a young age and start a proofing process with the e collar at a young age and having the subject still maintaining a great attitude. You can carry it over to many things in the field also at an early age.


    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1DmQ9...368EFFCE7C486F

    This was a tough test athough its hard to see,,,took lots of bottom and lining to do properly. My Fred type method used on this dog


    But like all training ,,as the dog is faced with greater temptations or things that excite him ,,the levels go up. No different than any other kind of training. The only thing I see different is a dog who carries a better attitude through the processand still comply.
    Some dogs still need the ole come meeting with Jesus session,,but most go smoothly.
    I have a couple dogs here who were brought up with this method and they receive an MH and did well at an early age in the Q,,,,but here is the big but,,,they would have probably done about the same with traditional methods.
    Pete
    Last edited by Pete; 07-04-2013 at 06:48 PM.
    John 5 :30
    I can of my own self do nothing ,as I hear , I judge,,and my judgement is just, because I seek not my own will,,but the will of the father which hath sent me
    John 7:16 -- Jesus answered them and said my doctrine is not mine, but his that sent me.
    mark 16:9 -- So then after the lord had spoken unto them,he was received up in heaven, and sat on the right hand of God
    I Tim. 2:5 --For there is one God and one mediator between God and man ,, the man Christ Jesus

  9. #49
    Senior Member badbullgator's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Location
    somewhere between Boca Grande and Mims
    Posts
    7,182

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Pete View Post
    I'll have to disagree with that Cory

    There is a huge misconception about the process. Saying you can't get a dog to a high trial or HT standard is not true. I don't know exactly what Pat or Fred do but I do know I do something similar so I would file it in the same category pretty much. A high standard of obedience weather you use only food,e collar or pinch collar is still a high level of obedience as long as you use the same standard for each of those. This is only another way of introducing obedience at a young age and start a proofing process with the e collar at a young age and having the subject still maintaining a great attitude. You can carry it over to many things in the field also at an early age.


    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1DmQ9...368EFFCE7C486F

    This was a tough test athough its hard to see,,,took lots of bottom and lining to do properly. My Fred type method used on this dog


    But like all training ,,as the dog is faced with greater temptations or things that excite him ,,the levels go up. No different than any other kind of training. The only thing I see different is a dog who carries a better attitude through the processand still comply.
    Some dogs still need the ole come meeting with Jesus session,,but most go smoothly.
    I have a couple dogs here who were brought up with this method and they receive an MH and did well at an early age in the Q,,,,but here is the big but,,,they would have probably done about the same with traditional methods.
    Pete
    Pete
    i think you are reading far more into what I said. I said FRED failed miserably in his attempts. Doing something similar is not the same. I said "he can turn out a fairly obedient dog.....hunting/ht/ft not so much" the he being Fred. That said if the owner/creator of the system can't do it it is going to be an uphill battle for most using his system.
    You say you don't know what he does so that makes a comparison to what to do apples to oranges. Can you honestly say yo would recommend this system to a novice trying to trim his first dog?
    Views and opinions expressed herein by Badbullgator do not necessarily represent the policies or position of RTF. RTF and all of it's subsidiaries can not be held liable for the off centered humor and politically incorrect comments of the author.
    Corey Burke

  10. #50
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    Idaho
    Posts
    2,811

    Default

    Fred was new to hunt tests. So he had a learning curve,,, if any "A" list retriever trainer crossed disciplines such as schutzhund or herding,,they to would seem clumsey or awkwardat first until they got in the groove of things. Fred could have gotten as good with HT's as he was with bite dogs if he put the time in. When I first started doing Schutzhund I suddenly became a duffus. As time went on I got smoother,yet I had been training dogs for 20 years or so before I started the sport

    I know enough of what fred does to make a comparison. He is tap tap tap ...,,I am continuous. Same concept it falls under re-enforcement. Realize that i am not defending Fred I would say the same with any Tom Dick or Harry.
    I assure you that his method and mine are similar enough to be in the sme category. Also never get put in a box , I use whatever will work Fred,Evan,Lardy Pat,,its all good if it works

    Pete
    John 5 :30
    I can of my own self do nothing ,as I hear , I judge,,and my judgement is just, because I seek not my own will,,but the will of the father which hath sent me
    John 7:16 -- Jesus answered them and said my doctrine is not mine, but his that sent me.
    mark 16:9 -- So then after the lord had spoken unto them,he was received up in heaven, and sat on the right hand of God
    I Tim. 2:5 --For there is one God and one mediator between God and man ,, the man Christ Jesus

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •