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Thread: Master National Entry Fee going up again

  1. #31
    Senior Member DarrinGreene's Avatar
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    I couldn't figure out if it was a 501 c3 organization but most clubs are... If it is, then the records are published yearly per the IRS code.
    Darrin Greene

  2. #32
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    I am not a member of a MN Club just a participant in the events. Some of the accusations would make me upset too. However, the process to propose changes that was detailed above seems like a lot to go though almost to the point of purposely hard to prevent just such a thing from occurring. I am assuming that the meeting is on-site right. So a club has to pay a few thousand dollars to send someone to the meeting and their is a good chance that they would just vote down a measure like that? I think transparency is good and making financial statements more available seems pretty fair. As an outsider, the idea of having member clubs pick up statements in person in this day and age seems pretty odd at least. If it is a good idea just do it.

  3. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bubba View Post
    http://www.masternational.com/Websit...MNRCon2009.pdf

    For comparison purposes- when you do get your laptop in front of you surf up the equivalent document from the NARC, NRC and HRC for me willya?

    I got your veil of secrecy right here regards

    Bubba
    Section 6:

    The Treasurer's books shall be open at all times for inspection by the Board of Directors or any member thereof, or the delegate of any member club.


    Two local Presidents penned a letter asking for details regarding the official loss statement put out by the MN and no response following the above by-law was ever recieved. I think they got some phone calls which asked them to back off the subject. I imagine if they'd of kept asking or bringing it up the guy who told me I'd basically be judged unfairly and never pass a test may have pressured them as well. I also got an email from another fella who told me "i don't know SH*t" and need to stop asking questions. Pretty sure his buddy who was a rude SOB to me two years in a row for no good reason will be on the judges ballot this year too. I worked my butt off for these guys who think their stuff smells sweet. Wasn't even running a dog. Just working for the members of the club. Not for the political sideline junk the MN creates.

    I think it's a great concept except for the fact it is affecting local tests negatively and the vast majority of club members who donate their money and time get zero gain from the event and the headaches that come along with it. I think this is the reason that Mike's club turned the switch to the "off" position.

  4. #34
    Senior Member junbe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DarrinGreene View Post
    I couldn't figure out if it was a 501 c3 organization but most clubs are... If it is, then the records are published yearly per the IRS code.
    Most clubs are not 501c3 organizations. In fact there are only 3 AKC field trial/hunting test clubs that are 501c3 organizations. Most are 501c4 or a few 501c7's.

    Jack
    It was impossible, so it took a little longer to accomplish.

  5. #35
    Senior Member DarrinGreene's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by junbe View Post
    Most clubs are not 501c3 organizations. In fact there are only 3 AKC field trial/hunting test clubs that are 501c3 organizations. Most are 501c4 or a few 501c7's.

    Jack
    Hi Jack. I didn't have time to find the regs but I'm pretty sure they information still needs to be disclosed. All non profits have accountability and transparency requirements per federal law (I believe).
    Darrin Greene

  6. #36
    Senior Member Ken Bora's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bubba View Post
    .....Every club delegate in attendance at the annual meeting is handed a complete financial report. If your club neglected to send a delegate that can hardly be considered negligence on the part of the MNRC........
    Bubba
    Quote Originally Posted by Paul "Happy" Gilmore View Post
    Section 6:

    The Treasurer's books shall be open at all times for inspection by the Board of Directors or any member thereof, or the delegate of any member club.


    Two local Presidents penned a letter asking for details regarding the official loss statement put out by the MN and no response following the above by-law was ever recieved..........

    well well, which witch is it?
    do you all get your $$$ report only 1 time and if you aint there it sucks to be your club?
    or
    are the books open at any time?
    no way Happy and Bubba can both be right
    "So what is big is not always the Trout nor the Deer but the chance, the being there. And what is full is not necessarily the creel nor the freezer, but the memory." ~ Aldo Leopold

    "The Greatest Obstacle to Discovery is not Ignorance -- It is the Illusion of Knowledge" ~ Daniel Boorstin

  7. #37
    Senior Member DarrinGreene's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ken Bora View Post
    well well, which witch is it?
    do you all get your $$$ report only 1 time and if you aint there it sucks to be your club?
    or
    are the books open at any time?
    no way Happy and Bubba can both be right
    I think there may be a difference in someone's mind between "open books" and answering letters about why an event lost money.
    Darrin Greene

  8. #38
    Senior Member helencalif's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by junbe View Post
    Most clubs are not 501c3 organizations. In fact there are only 3 AKC field trial/hunting test clubs that are 501c3 organizations. Most are 501c4 or a few 501c7's.

    Jack
    I am the Treasurer for two retriever clubs. One is a 501(c) 4 and has been for many years. The other club now has 501 (c) 3 status after a 3-year effort. It is not a new club; it is an old club that decided to switch IRS determination from (c) 4 to (c) 3. (What a mistake that decision was!) The 501 (c) 3 category is not easy to obtain from the IRS. After more than a year had gone by with the involvement of an attorney, my husband became club president and I became club treasurer. The wrangling with the IRS and meeting with the attorney was dumped into our laps. The burden was on us for the next 2 years. The IRS wanted to keep the club at (c) 4, but finally granted 501(c) 3 status. Frankly, I don't think it was worth the effort, but once we were in it, we were in it. Great to be able to announce to the club that the IRS had finally granted 3 status. Smiles all around. Not a single member had dealt with the attorney or with the IRS -- they never made a phone call, never sat down with the attorney, never filled out paperwork, never responded to IRS correspondence. None of them personally went through IRS-hell.

    I do not recommend to any club that they should try to convince the IRS to change their non-profit category to some other category. While the club members can on a whim vote for changing category status, they aren't the ones who will go through IRS-hell. The President and/or Treasure will. Clubs, stay with whatever category the IRS has determined for you. Don't rock the boat.

    Helen
    Last edited by helencalif; 03-16-2013 at 02:10 PM.

  9. #39
    Senior Member helencalif's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ken Bora View Post
    well well, which witch is it?
    do you all get your $$$ report only 1 time and if you aint there it sucks to be your club?
    or
    are the books open at any time?
    no way Happy and Bubba can both be right
    Bubba is relying on how things operated in the MNRC when he was involved with the organization.

    Happy is telling us the reality of what happened when two club presidents wrote to the MNRC with questions as why there was such a loss, and they felt they did not get answers.

    Think about it. Every club has the phrase in their by laws that the Treasurer's books (or the financial records) are open for inspection at any time. It is a requirement. But the reality is, the Treasurer has those records in their possession and they are responsible for keeping the books. It is unreal to think a member is going to go in person to look at the financial records and the books the Treasurer is keeping.

    RE-the MNRC ... for many years the same person was MNRC's Secretary-Treasurer. He lived in Arkansas and that's where the financial records were. The President and Board members for those years lived all over the U.S.

    Whether it is a national club or a regular club, if a member has questions, they are going to write to the Treasurer or the President or a Board member or they are going to ask questions at a meeting. It is doubtful that anyone other than the Treasurer has ever seen a club's financial records. The Board will get a financial report (monthly, quarterly, annually), but how many clubs actually conduct an audit?

    How many clubs have an independent audit by a CPA at the end of a year? Or at the end of 5 years? Or when they change Treasurers? I would guess not many. At best, maybe a club self-audits, which means there may be an Audit Committee with a chairman who checks the math on financial reports. I don't think many audit committee chairmen/women go to the Treasurer's house to look at receipts, deposit slips, bank statements, check registers, and other paperwork to make sure that all of the money taken in was actually deposited and that all of the checks written had receipts or other documentation. If your club really conducts an audit, let us know. My hat is off to them.

    If ever an audit should be conducted, it should be done when a Treasurer is leaving office and a new Treasurer is coming on board. When there is this change, that is when the financial records physically exchange hands and move from one place to another.

    Re-the MNRC. An election was held at the 2011 annual meeting. The Board had split the Secretary-Treasurer position into two positions. A new Treasurer was elected. The question needing asking should be was there an audit? The former Sec-Treasurer stayed on as Secretary. The new Treasurer was a CPA living in Texas. That would mean that the financial records would physically leave Arkansas and go to Texas. Around June 2012, I am told, the CPA Treasurer in Texas resigned.

    I have no idea who became Treasurer for the rest of 2012. That would be the person who would handle all of the finances of the 2012 master national and who would be responsible for preparing the 2012 annual financial report. I don't know if that was the current Treasurer or not.

    The MNRC website says Jimmy Hughes, a CPA in Alabama, is the current Treasurer. I assume that all MNRC financial records were passed on to him and that they are in Alabama. I hope an audit was performed before he took over. I say this because...

    ... an audit provides protection to the outgoing Treasurer as well as the new incoming Treasurer. It really should be done, but IMHO seldom is done by small clubs. I can understand small clubs not conducting a full-blown audit, but I think a national club with an income of over $225,000 each and every year for a number of years has a lot of inflow and outflow so I hope an audit was done before the new Treasurer took office.

    I am very happy to see that a CPA is the financial officer for the MNRC and I wish him well.

    Helen
    Last edited by helencalif; 03-16-2013 at 02:38 PM.

  10. #40
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    I don't have a dog in the fight but, what on earth is the justification for not mailing a copy of the financial status to the president of each club? I looked at the governance of the MNRC. Under VII Government, Section 6 we find ... "The Treasurer shall report to the member clubs and to the Board of Directors at every meeting as to the condition of the finances of this Club." Note that it doesn't say, "Member clubs in attendance..."

    Why on earth does the MNRC think that club representatives have to be present at the meeting to receive a copy of the report? I'd think that one of the last steps in presenting the MN would be for the Secretary to send a nice letter that says, "Sorry we missed you. Here's the report of the Treasurer." That would be the classy approach rather than to hide behind some unwritten rule about a club having to be there.

    <shrug>
    Eric

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