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Thread: Suddenly refuses to take an over ...

  1. #1
    Junior Member J.Nichols's Avatar
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    Default Suddenly refuses to take an over ...

    I have a 13 mo. old blf that has absolutely excelled in training thusfar and had been running cold blinds pretty well, particularly for her age ... however over just the last week or so she suddenly has started to refuse to take a direct over, oftentimes just sitting and staring at me. It began on disciplined casting on returns if she cheated cover, I'd have to walk out and basically walk her through the over (on a side note, she will take an over disciplined cast for other people running her, its like she has this overwhelming compulsion to just get back to me with the duck no matter what, however she'll take a back/angleback disciplined cast fine for me), and now it has begun on just general overs. I think I've just been trying to run her too tight for her age perhaps, at least thats the only reason I can think of that would have initiated this behavior ... she just doesn't see enough actual overs except when we play the baseball games in the yard, which she and I have both probably grown tired of since its an every day or 4day a week min. type of thing. The only thing I can think is to just revist T work and/or do a lot more walking baseball with her maybe ... anyone have thoughts on other possible solutions?

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    Senior Member Brokengunz's Avatar
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    walk out, thro one out, and give the over cast. after drills you hardly ever give an over cast. show the dog what you want,

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    Senior Member Howard N's Avatar
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    At 13 months you do not have a finished retriever. She's a retriever in transition to become a finished dog. I'd blow the whistle earlier before she has a chance to build up any momentum away from the obstacle she's avoiding. Handle her when an angle will work instead of needing an over. Also, if it's an obstacle training issue remember this and simplify by moving up for the next one. This could be your dog telling you she doesn't understand what you're working on. More training in simpler situations may be what's needed.

    BTW, I read it as more an avoidance of cover and terrain and not understanding it's her job to not deviate from a straight line more than willful disobedience on overs. I didn't understand your "to tight" comment so I might be wrong. But them not handling through cover and terrain is common and I'd teach them to go through cover and terrain rather than say they're being willfully disobedient and have big wars on overs.

    Sounds like she's not understanding something and it's up to you to figure it out and work on the part she doesn't understand. Break it down and work on it in little pieces.
    Howard Niemi

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    Senior Member Wayne Nutt's Avatar
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    What Howard said about age, etc. At a long distance my Rowdy will just stare at me on overs. He is 11 1/2 months. In a couple of weeks I will start walking baseball. This will help. IMHO, overs should be the least used cast. I use angle backs before they get that far off line. At this age I am not to concerned about the route back to me.
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    Senior Member BigKahuna13's Avatar
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    "BTW, I read it as more an avoidance of cover and terrain and not understanding it's her job to not deviate from a straight line more than willful disobedience on overs."

    I agree with the above by Howard N. One of my pups, who I thought was doing well with handling into cover, totally refused handling on my South Dakota pheasant and duck trip this year. Its frustrating but go back and simplify so your dog understands the job.

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    Senior Member KwickLabs's Avatar
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    She just doesn't see enough actual overs except when we play the baseball games in the yard, which she and I have both probably grown tired of since its an every day or 4 day a week min. type of thing.
    Doing "more" of something is not always the best way to extinguish a sudden change in behavior.

    I think I've just been trying to run her too tight for her age perhaps, at least thats the only reason I can think of that would have initiated this behavior
    A young dog will often "send a message" that they are out of balance.

    The only thing I can think is to just revisit T work and/or do a lot more walking baseball with her maybe ... anyone have thoughts on other possible solutions
    Maybe do a lot more marking?
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    Junior Member J.Nichols's Avatar
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    You were correct in your assumption that it was avoiding cover, usually on the way out she'll hit it fine, take a pretty good line, however on the way back she will try to cheat it, and by "too tight" I meant that I've been trying to keep her on a pretty straight and true line rather than just letting her get to the bird and go ... she has more than enough "go". In this particular situation we were running through a corner of a sage grass patch and I sat her as soon as I noticed her start to deviate, gave an angle, she still tried to cheat, stopped, called back to where it was refused, indirect pressure, direct over, walked out to w/in 15 yards, still refused. Like BigKahuna said, its a bit frustrating, but clearly she needs the simplification for a while. As far as marks go she gets at least 3 sets daily so I don't think that's the issue.

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