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Thread: (R) Rob Portman?

  1. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by HPL View Post
    If one looks at 1 Corinthians 6: 9-10 (Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind,10 Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God.)
    it appears that jealousy, drunkenness, and even partying are on a par with homosexuality, but I never hear anyone making the kind of stink over those transgressions that that folks make over homosexuality. When was the last time you heard anyone ask a candidate to state their position on revelry and then suggest that they would not vote for someone because their position on revelry was unacceptable? Folks have actually put plenty of revelers, drunkards, and adulterers in office (some even in the Whitehouse).
    Great post, I think what the law of the old and New Testament show us is that we are royally screwed up. If someone was to be asked the question in a debate you posed, the Christian would respond that he is all of these and more.

    I am totally tracking with you Gerry. Each society has the duty to decide what is moral and right in their society. When that differs from what God tells us is moral and right we follow God. If our society persecutes us for believing how we do, then oh well. We will just join in the cloud of witnesses that were persecuted before us. It isn't as big of a deal as we make it in my opinion. Should I be surprised that what is wrong is right and vice versa, no not at all. I should stop worrying about how screwed up the world is and start loving others

  2. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by mudminnow View Post
    Great post, I think what the law of the old and New Testament show us is that we are royally screwed up. If someone was to be asked the question in a debate you posed, the Christian would respond that he is all of these and more.

    I am totally tracking with you Gerry. Each society has the duty to decide what is moral and right in their society. When that differs from what God tells us is moral and right we follow God. If our society persecutes us for believing how we do, then oh well. We will just join in the cloud of witnesses that were persecuted before us. It isn't as big of a deal as we make it in my opinion. Should I be surprised that what is wrong is right and vice versa, no not at all. I should stop worrying about how screwed up the world is and start loving others
    Well, how about "believers" who appear to selectively persecute transgressors depending on the specific transgression? That is my point. Many find (esp male) homosexuality repugnant and so force politicians to clearly state their positions as a litmus test and then blithely usher liars, drunks, and cheats into office as long as they denounce homosexuality. Now THAT seems hypocritical to me.
    Any doctrine that weakens personal responsibility for judgment and for action helps create the attitudes that welcome and support the totalitarian state.
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  3. #53
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    One either believes in Liberty and Justice for all, or they don't.
    It's such a shame that in the USA, defending Liberty has become such a heroic deed.

  4. #54
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    (D) Hillary Clinton has changed her position.

    Hillary Clinton Endorses Same-Sex Marriage
    By SHERYL GAY STOLBERG

    Saying that “gay rights are human rights,’’ Hillary Rodham Clinton, the former secretary of state and potential 2016 presidential candidate, has endorsed same-sex marriage.

    “I believe America is at its best when we champion the freedom and dignity of every human being,’’ Mrs. Clinton said in a video posted Monday on the Internet by the Human Rights Campaign, a gay rights advocacy group. Her announcement comes as the Supreme Court is about to hear two landmark gay rights cases that advocates hope will make same-sex marriage legal in all 50 states.

    Mrs. Clinton’s announcement represents a switch in position; as a presidential candidate in 2008, she explicitly opposed same-sex marriage, saying that she favored civil unions but that decisions about the legality of marriage should be left to the states. (Until last year, President Obama took that position as well; the president now favors a right to marriage for gay couples.) But Mrs. Clinton did take steps to protect gay couples when she was secretary of state, work that she said “inspired me to think anew” about the values she holds.

    “L.G.B.T. Americans are our colleagues, our teachers, our soldiers, our friends, our loved ones, and they are full and equal citizens and deserve the rights of citizenship,’’ she said in the six-minute video, using the abbreviation for lesbian, gay, bisexual and transgender. “That includes marriage.’’

    Mrs. Clinton spoke in the video of the recent wedding of her own daughter, Chelsea, saying, “I wish every parent that same joy.’’

    Mrs. Clinton and her family have longstanding ties to the Human Rights Campaign. The group’s president, Chad Griffin, was born in Hope, Ark. – Bill Clinton’s hometown – and got his start in politics volunteering for Mr. Clinton’s 1992 presidential campaign. The former president and Chelsea Clinton expressed their support for same-sex marriage when it was under consideration in the New York State legislature.

    And just last week, Mr. Clinton expressed his explicit support for overturning the federal Defense of Marriage Act, the 1996 law — which he signed — that requires the federal government to view marriage as between a man and a woman for legal purposes.
    One change due to family, one change to get votes.

    Do you respect one more than the other, or are they the same and acceptible now that the horse has changed color?

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  5. #55
    Senior Member Wade's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by road kill View Post
    (D) Hillary Clinton has changed her position.



    One change due to family, one change to get votes.

    Do you respect one more than the other, or are they the same and acceptible now that the horse has changed color?

    No I do not, they are the same now but to me not acceptable
    I hate rude behavior in a man, won't tolerate it. Captain Woodrow Call

  6. #56
    Senior Member road kill's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wade View Post
    No I do not, they are the same now but to me not acceptable
    The horse is kinda cool though, isn't he/she?
    Stan b & Elvis

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    Quote Originally Posted by HPL View Post
    Well, how about "believers" who appear to selectively persecute transgressors depending on the specific transgression? That is my point. Many find (esp male) homosexuality repugnant and so force politicians to clearly state their positions as a litmus test and then blithely usher liars, drunks, and cheats into office as long as they denounce homosexuality. Now THAT seems hypocritical to me.
    I agree completely, and i that what i was trying to explain but i guess i made it as clear as mud.

    Liberty and Justice for all is scary for Liberals, but maybe even more so for conservatives Franco. But once you realize (and i know you do Franco) you don't have to be the world's/country's mother, you finally get liberty.

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    Pete : I wont try and engage you on what the Bible says because I am a neophyte and have only returned to attending a non denomenational church in the last year....BUT if homosexuality is wrong, then how do you or anyone else account for all the Christians that are homosexual...IMO it knows no race,no political side (even though some try to stereotype them) and it knows no religion...

    I have changed my view toward homosexuality...I WAS your stereotypical homophobic conservative...but then I realized that if I stayed with such a stance then I had to denounce my nephews and a few close co workers, and other friends, and I just was not willing to do that
    Sorry it took me so long to respond Bon,,I have not been near any wifi and my time now is short.
    Just because someone is a christen doesn't mean they will be perfect. People can say they are this or that but in reality it doesn't make it so. But on the other hand a person can be gay and have holy spirit with in. Quite often these people change over time if they continue to resist the urges. But its incredibly difficult. Babes don't grow up over night. Same thing
    Biblically and spiritually its abroad and indepth subject. But all I can add is the only thing required from God to be a christian or born again is if you believe Romans 10 9 and 10 thats how easy he made it. Because most of all God wants a relationship with the people he made, and the relationship is based on how good you get to knbow him and whayt your heart is to him. No different than a human to human relationship
    John 5 :30
    I can of my own self do nothing ,as I hear , I judge,,and my judgement is just, because I seek not my own will,,but the will of the father which hath sent me
    John 7:16 -- Jesus answered them and said my doctrine is not mine, but his that sent me.
    mark 16:9 -- So then after the lord had spoken unto them,he was received up in heaven, and sat on the right hand of God
    I Tim. 2:5 --For there is one God and one mediator between God and man ,, the man Christ Jesus

  9. #59
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    now, what was it again that Jesus told us?
    The word he used was "agape" that is the" love of God" If you are not of God then you can not have the love of God. There is phileo (sp brotherly love,,,,,,,) and errose (sp)sexual love,,,,,,,,, that's generally the kind of love people put off. and JC never said to errose or phileo any one. so now ,,,how do we love with this "Lve of God"

    that takes commitment and heart. And sometimes has nothing to do with being nice..... kinda when JC turned the merchant tables over in the temple. even in his pissed of state he was loving. Can you see the heart behind those actions.
    Pete

    Pete
    John 5 :30
    I can of my own self do nothing ,as I hear , I judge,,and my judgement is just, because I seek not my own will,,but the will of the father which hath sent me
    John 7:16 -- Jesus answered them and said my doctrine is not mine, but his that sent me.
    mark 16:9 -- So then after the lord had spoken unto them,he was received up in heaven, and sat on the right hand of God
    I Tim. 2:5 --For there is one God and one mediator between God and man ,, the man Christ Jesus

  10. #60
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    I do think that Jesus stressed the Golden Rule, that all of us were God's children, and God's mercy and love are infinite
    Gerry
    can you give me chapter and verse on that.
    Listen there are plenty of people out there who have a different spiritual father..,, JC addressed one of the Pharisee and point blank told him that his father was the devil. That made that religious leader born of the seed of the serpent. Just like christians are born of the seed of God. I don't want to get into this on rft,, but not all of us are sons and daughters of God. Being born of the seed of the serpent is the only unforgivable sin,,, BECAUSE seed is permanent I will always be my fathers son no matter what I do in life. He can't take his seed out of me. Same with God and his children and same with the devil and his children. That's the only reason it is unforgivable because God cannot break his own rules because he is just. If the devil is the God of this world then who do you think runs most of it. Certainly not God almighty kids. Thats why this place is so dark and there is death and destruction. And light cannot have fellowship with darkness. And yes I can find you chapter and verses pertaining to this subject.
    pete

    So obviously not all people have good in them.
    Last edited by Pete; 03-19-2013 at 12:51 PM.
    John 5 :30
    I can of my own self do nothing ,as I hear , I judge,,and my judgement is just, because I seek not my own will,,but the will of the father which hath sent me
    John 7:16 -- Jesus answered them and said my doctrine is not mine, but his that sent me.
    mark 16:9 -- So then after the lord had spoken unto them,he was received up in heaven, and sat on the right hand of God
    I Tim. 2:5 --For there is one God and one mediator between God and man ,, the man Christ Jesus

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