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Should a FT Pro own a dog on his truck?

Should a FT pro OWN a dog on his truck?

33K views 155 replies 61 participants last post by  Golden Boy 
#1 ·
Just a question to liven up the afternoon.
 
#5 ·
Gerard,
If the pro has his own dog on his own truck and he trains and trials the dog, if that dog only competes in Opens and never in Ams, how many points does that dog have to have to almost become an FC.
 
#6 ·
NO. Not in FTs. A pro could certainly have an outcome on the effect of his dogs. Not that a pro would do it, but it has the look of impropriety about it.
 
#7 ·
Has nothing to do with impropiety.

Just a statement of job function.

When you pay a pro - esp pay him a handling fee - you are really paying him to win with your dog.

If he wins with his own dog - he simply is not doing his job.

I.E. His job is not just to win - his job is to win with his client's dog.
 
#8 ·
How a pro runs his business is his business. The market place will always settle this issue.

If I place my dog on ?X? pros truck and he?s beating me with his dog on weekends how do you think it?ll take me to pull my dog and say, ?Adios.?

RC
 
#9 ·
That's the point. If I am paying the Pro to win with my dog, if he runs his own and it wins, would the pro want to put himself in the position of the owner saying, you had your dog win on purpose... why would a pro even want to put himself in that position? Obviously, he is being paid by every client on the truck to win with their dog.
 
#13 ·
Gerard Rozas said:
...I.E. His job is not just to win - his job is to win with his client's dog.
If he has a truck full, which client?

Joe Miano
 
#14 ·
which client?
MEMEMEMEMEMEMEME!

But seriously, whichever client owns the dog that has its head screwed on right that weekend, and all the luck running with it.

Bringing this back to biggish trials, but how DO other clients feel about the mega-winners sucking up all the points and continuing to run? Not sure how I'd feel if my dog got beat week in and week out by some mega-star ALSO on my same Pro's truck. I'd be thinking "OK, great, FC Wonderdog won his gazillionth Open, but WHEN'S IT MY TURN?"

Maybe Pros should turn the megastars back over to their owners to continue running after thay have qualified for that year's nationals. I don't know.

I think a Pro running his own dog is just a mine field for that Pro.

Lisa
 
#16 ·
Gerard Rozas said:
When you pay a pro - esp pay him a handling fee - you are really paying him to win with your dog.

If he wins with his own dog - he simply is not doing his job.

I.E. His job is not just to win - his job is to win with his client's dog.

A Pro's job is train the dog to the best of his/her ability. Period. Nothing more, nothing less. It fails the logic test to think one is paying a Pro to win an event where 99% of those entering will finish the event as losers.

CLIENTS decide if the dog they are paying to be trained should be competed. If competed, EVERY dog coming off the Pro's truck SHOULD have been trained to maximum extent possible and EVERY DOG should be put in the BEST position to win the event, reardless of ownership.

Given a limited amount of time in the day, a limited amount of dogs being able to be trained, and an almost unlimited need for cash flow (client dog = cash flow) if a Pro wants a hole on his truck, it's the Pro's decision.

Having said this, if you send a dog to a Pro, and the Pro has a dog on the truck, and you are the LEAST bit concerned the Pro maybe be spending more time with their dog than yours, you need to find a new Pro. ASAP.

Having run my own dogs in HT's and made the "I'm sorry, your dog didn't but yes my dog did, and thank you for asking." call, it was most uncomfortable for me. I can't imagine what it would be like to have to do that at the FT level...but, having the greatest clients in the whole wide world, they have told me if I elect to run a dog I own, they are all for it.

Return of Service Regards,

Joe S.
 
#17 ·
Joe wrote:

A Pro's job is train the dog to the best of his/her ability. Period. Nothing more, nothing less
I could not disagree with you more on this Joe. We are discussing a competative FT pro active on the circuit. How many of these clients pay him only to go a series or two? Or just to get 2 out of the 3 birds?

Clients want to win. If they are smart, they know they will not win every weekend - but at some point they want that call on Sunday night.

What you say is true of a gundog pro or a HT pro. But for a FT pro - its a different animal.
 
#20 ·
Lisa Van Loo said:
Bringing this back to biggish trials, but how DO other clients feel about the mega-winners sucking up all the points and continuing to run? Not sure how I'd feel if my dog got beat week in and week out by some mega-star ALSO on my same Pro's truck. I'd be thinking "OK, great, FC Wonderdog won his gazillionth Open, but WHEN'S IT MY TURN?"
For all you FT number crunchers out there.... How many titled dogs continue to campaign for points vs taking the title and saying that's it?

What's the percentage of titled vs non-titled dogs in an average open/am?

And just for speculation - what would happen if titled dogs could no longer compete in opens & ams - say they had a special titled stake or something so they could still play, but did not take points away from the not yet titled dogs? Bad idea????

Latisha
 
#21 ·
Gerard Rozas said:
Joe wrote:

A Pro's job is train the dog to the best of his/her ability. Period. Nothing more, nothing less
I could not disagree with you more on this Joe. We are discussing a competative FT pro active on the circuit. How many of these clients pay him only to go a series or two? Or just to get 2 out of the 3 birds?

Clients want to win. If they are smart, they know they will not win every weekend - but at some point they want that call on Sunday night.

What you say is true of a gundog pro or a HT pro. But for a FT pro - its a different animal.
Logically, it can't be true.

How can someone logically justify paying someone 12K - 15K a year to win a sport when 99% of the entrants are, by definition, losers!!!

You a pay a Pro to train a dog to the best of their ability IN HOPES they are good enough to win...those that win more often get more/better dogs = more cash flow. Which gives them more experience. Which gives them more chances.

I wouldn't send a dog to Mr. Farmer expecting him to win with the dog. I'd expect him to do the best he can with raw material I've provided to him. He has experience. (I'd pay for that.) He has knowledge of the task to be completed. (I'd pay for that.) He also has the experience and the knowledge to know if the dog, when trained to the best of his ability, is capable of winning an event. I'm damn sure paying for that.

I'm not paying him to win. I'm paying him to do the best he can. If he can't win with what I've provided him, then I'll provide him with some better raw materials.

Powerful Slicing Cross-Court Backhand Regards,

Joe S.
 
#22 ·
Joe,

With waiting lists of new clients and with old established clients getting new pups - How long do you think a dog that does not win will last on Danny's truck? Mike's truck?

Patton rode on Mike's truck for a long time before the wins came, but a lot of people knew it was possible.
 
#23 ·
Gerard Rozas said:
Joe,

With waiting lists of new clients and with old established clients getting new pups - How long do you think a dog that does not win will last on Danny's truck? Mike's truck?

Patton rode on Mike's truck for a long time before the wins came, but a lot of people knew it was possible.
GMan,

I've no idea, right now, how long a non-winning dog will last on Mr. Farmer or Mr. Lardy's truck. So...what's the answer?

Patton stayed on Mr. Lardy's truck for a long time before the wins came, I would guess, because the client and the Pro agreed, given enough time, it was a very good possibility.

When does the "average" FT start to bloom? 2.75/3.5...I've run against A BUNCH of 3 - 4 year olds in the Q this year.

Lobbing Regards,

Joe S.
 
#25 ·
If he can't win with what I've provided him, then I'll provide him with some better raw materials.
If it is all about raw materials and the shaping thereof, then why do they charge handling fees over and above monthly training fees? Huh? Huh?

148 MPH blazing serve regards;

Lisa
 
#26 ·
Lisa Van Loo said:
If it is all about raw materials and the shaping thereof, then why do they charge handling fees over and above monthly training fees? Huh? Huh?

148 MPH blazing serve regards;

Lisa
Don't know why some Pro's charge a handling fee.

I'd suggest you ask one that does...

Baseline Forehand Return w/Topspin Regards,

Joe S.
 
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