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Thread: Judging derby marks

  1. #21
    Senior Member Jennifer Henion's Avatar
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    Can you judges take a look at the 3rd photo of Derby water in the thread I just bumped titled "Going to watch a field trial".

    The photos are in the very last post by me. Look at the left water mark in relation to the handler standing outside the holding blind by herself. If the dog cheated that mark to the left, would you mark it down compared to a dog who took the water?

    Edit: sorry I'm too incompetent to paste the photos here

  2. #22
    Senior Member Ted Shih's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mitty View Post
    So if you are looking at your judges sheets after the test, to decide placements, what distinctions will they show? You've got 2 dogs that both marked the fall, but on your notes you got one going on an indirect line, No? So the higher placement goes to the dog with the straighter line. How else can you tell the difference between two good dogs?

    I don't judge the line. I don't judge whether the dog took water or ran around it. I judge the quality of the mark.

    Both dogs went to the bird without interruption. Neither dog hunted on the way to the bird. The dogs had equivalent marks.

    You tell the difference between a field of good dogs by setting up marks that are tough, so that by the end of the day, you have separation - and a winner, and three placements
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  3. #23
    Senior Member Breck's Avatar
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    One reason to run Derby under 8 pointed judges or judges who have judged a National. Even then lines will inevitably come into play. All to often newbee judges are assigned to Derby in their first assignments where the amateur is a better place to start. Many feel Derby is the hardest to judge. While it's supposed to be about marking we all know training has become a major factor.
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  4. #24
    Senior Member Ted Shih's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jennifer Henion View Post
    Can you judges take a look at the 3rd photo of Derby water in the thread I just bumped titled "Going to watch a field trial".

    The photos are in the very last post by me. Look at the left water mark in relation to the handler standing outside the holding blind by herself. If the dog cheated that mark to the left, would you mark it down compared to a dog who took the water?

    Edit: sorry I'm too incompetent to paste the photos here

    I don't think that a photo would change my opinion. I repeat. I do not judge the line. I do not judge whether a dog took water or ran around it. I am looking at the quality of the mark - about which you have told me nothing. That is the point of this discussion - don't evaluate the line. Evaluate the quality of the mark
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  5. #25
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    I have judged and run many,many, derbies over the years. Derbies are the least understood by many judges. The quality and experience of judges plays a part. Sometimes you will get judges that are major stake judges, looking for trained responses. Other times you may get judges that have the minimal combined points to judge. Other times you may be rushed to get it done as the minor stake judges are also judging the qualifying. Many judges haven't run a derby in years. Some may be their first assignment, judging with a pointed judge, after an apprenticeship.

    As far as judging the marks it's kinda like not so many years ago a behind the guns , then pick the mark up was the
    Kiss of death, even though the dog ringed the guns and put it's head on the mark. From a personal standpoint I pinned all the marks three series, then pinned one water mark, dog ran down the bank on the second mark pinned that one and got a JAM. The winner of the trial was so upset she went to the judges asked why go from a obvious placement to a JAM and was told my dog cheated the last bird. Even though a derby she still brings it up after all these years. Marking is primary sometimes that is forgotten.
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  6. #26
    Senior Member Mary Lynn Metras's Avatar
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    FT.jpg
    Quote Originally Posted by Jennifer Henion View Post
    Can you judges take a look at the 3rd photo of Derby water in the thread I just bumped titled "Going to watch a field trial".

    The photos are in the very last post by me. Look at the left water mark in relation to the handler standing outside the holding blind by herself. If the dog cheated that mark to the left, would you mark it down compared to a dog who took the water?

    Edit: sorry I'm too incompetent to paste the photos here

    Jenn Hope this works for you. I would like the dog to take some of the water, but it is marking in a Derby. I ran test dog in a derby and the very last series was a difficult water mark. It was one where the dog went on a hunt before finding the mark in the water. ML
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  7. #27
    Senior Member wayne anderson's Avatar
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    Excellent article in current Retrievers Online publication, published by Dennis Voight, discussion by Dennis and Judy Rasmusson on judging derby stakes.

  8. #28
    Senior Member Breck's Avatar
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    If you have a nice Derby dog and see a contest with Ted and Earl judging, you would want to go out of your way to run it.
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  9. #29
    Senior Member Jennifer Henion's Avatar
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    Thanks ML for posting the photo.

    And thanks to kjrice for the thread. It was exactly the topic on my mind.

  10. #30
    Senior Member kjrice's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jennifer Henion View Post
    Thanks ML for posting the photo.

    And thanks to kjrice for the thread. It was exactly the topic on my mind.
    Good luck this weekend.
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