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Thread: Judging derby marks

  1. #41
    Senior Member Ted Shih's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bcollins View Post
    Nothing worse than 16 dogs finishing a derby and 14 people thinking they won the trial.

    This typically occurs because the tests did not have tough tests throughout. 8 hard marks go a long way to eliminating this issue.
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  2. #42
    Senior Member huntinman's Avatar
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    Not many retired guns in derbies...
    Bill Davis

  3. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ted Shih View Post

    When I think "reluctance," I am thinking of a dog that slinks into the water, not a dog that runs with abandon around it

    .
    One route disturbs less cover in almost every situation and running with abandon around cover is a pleasurable thing for a dog to do versus entering an unpleasant/slower route which involves mud, ice, cover and water. All these dogs love to open up and run on land, do chose land over water, mud, ice is showing reluctance in the dogs own brain. A choice was made when he saw cover and it was to avoid it. He was reluctant of cover and chose a more personally desireable route.

    I read your definition of "reluctance" as being a slow or unstylish entry. Seems to be a different part of the rule book does it not?

  4. #44
    Senior Member kjrice's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ted Shih View Post
    Not applicable here



    Not applicable here



    Not applicable here. When I think "reluctance," I am thinking of a dog that slinks into the water, not a dog that runs with abandon around it.



    Not by me.

    I think people are spending far too much time focusing on "desired training responses" - training - rather than "marking."

    See Rule Book, page 48




    I think that judges need to remember that when you judge a field trial, you are judging a competition, not a training session. Why does it matter if a dog backsides a gun in competition? Particularly, if the gun is retired? But, you will hear judges and contestants comment about it all the time.
    .......................
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  5. #45
    Senior Member Jeff Bartlett's Avatar
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    Well this settles it I can stop training 6 days a week no need to train water as long as she pins birds.
    No need to go straight not to disturb cover that's not on line. Looks like she's going to win every trial
    We can run along With every other dog entered. We're all winners kinda reminds me of t-ball )))))
    If a dog runs around water it absolutely lacks courage if it runs around cover it absolutely lacks courage
    So if two dogs were evenly matched!!completely matched!! going into the 4th series dog a runs the bank pins bird
    Dog b swims to bird pins bird dog a wins and judges should give a better effort when setting marks and or shouldn't judge their buddies

  6. #46
    Senior Member huntinman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jeff Bartlett View Post
    Well this settles it I can stop training 6 days a week no need to train water as long as she pins birds.
    No need to go straight not to disturb cover that's not on line. Looks like she's going to win every trial
    We can run along With every other dog entered. We're all winners kinda reminds me of t-ball )))))
    If a dog runs around water it absolutely lacks courage if it runs around cover it absolutely lacks courage
    So if two dogs were evenly matched!!completely matched!! going into the 4th series dog a runs the bank pins bird
    Dog b swims to bird pins bird dog a wins and judges should give a better effort when setting marks and or shouldn't judge their buddies
    Ha! Good luck with that.
    Bill Davis

  7. #47
    Member russell.jason2's Avatar
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    Ok, from a rookie point of view. I agree with and understand Mr. Shih. A derby should be about marking not about trainability, with that said if the marks are well place and the dog cheats or avoids cover would it not put the dog in a bad position to get the marks clean?, just asking. Why would someone consider if a dog avoid water, he/she lack courage, from my limited understanding a dogs prey drive tells him to get the bird as quick as possible and water slows him down. Even though I am a rookie, I would not run derbies until my dog is ready and understands staying in and not avoiding cover...bigger goal is AA stakes and I do not want to create bad habits in the derby. When I think my 10 month old is ready I will run her in the derby but if she tries to cheat, I will use the whistle and suck up my 80 or so dollars. The most discouraging thing about this sport is the rule book is right there for every one to read, however rules are not always applied and sometimes just flat out ignored but hey I love to watch my dogs run and love to play the game. Mr. shih, I really have enjoyed your insight on my limited time on RTF!

  8. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jeff Bartlett View Post
    We're all winners kinda reminds me of t-ball )))))
    Just because you played T-ball until 5th grade doesn't mean you have to put down the 1st graders for all being winners..lol..

  9. #49
    Senior Member bcollins's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by russell.jason2 View Post
    . I agree with and understand Mr. Shih. A derby should be about marking not about trainability, with that said if the marks are well place and the dog cheats or avoids cover would it not put the dog in a bad position to get the marks clean?, just asking.
    This is true but a lot of people judging do not have the knowledge or the grounds to do that so you get the stay in the water marks which i personally am perfectly fine with.Some don't even know not to throw the birds the wrong way and just reward the dog that has no courage to swim because they get to the bird without having to show courage and stay in and swim it out but it PINNED THE MARK

  10. #50
    Senior Member huntinman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by russell.jason2 View Post
    Ok, from a rookie point of view. I agree with and understand Mr. Shih. A derby should be about marking not about trainability, with that said if the marks are well place and the dog cheats or avoids cover would it not put the dog in a bad position to get the marks clean?, just asking. Why would someone consider if a dog avoid water, he/she lack courage, from my limited understanding a dogs prey drive tells him to get the bird as quick as possible and water slows him down. Even though I am a rookie, I would not run derbies until my dog is ready and understands staying in and not avoiding cover...bigger goal is AA stakes and I do not want to create bad habits in the derby. When I think my 10 month old is ready I will run her in the derby but if she tries to cheat, I will use the whistle and suck up my 80 or so dollars. The most discouraging thing about this sport is the rule book is right there for every one to read, however rules are not always applied and sometimes just flat out ignored but hey I love to watch my dogs run and love to play the game. Mr. shih, I really have enjoyed your insight on my limited time on RTF!
    That's, all well and good. But all too frequently the derby is off somewhere in a cow pasture, eaten down to the dirt. With a little round pond and no cover. (Or, out west, it may be an irrigation ditch). You work with what you have. If the grounds and water don't lend itself to the type marks to let a natural marker run the bank without being penalized... What do you do? Throw all the marks across the middle of a pond? Again, you can only work with the grounds the club gives you.
    Bill Davis

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