The RetrieverTraining.Net Forums The Retriever Academy
Total Retriever Training with Mike Lardy
Hawkeye Media Gunners Up Tritronics Outdoor Media
Page 3 of 6 FirstFirst 12345 ... LastLast
Results 21 to 30 of 52

Thread: Derby Triples

  1. #21
    Senior Member Ted Shih's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2003
    Location
    Golden, Colorado
    Posts
    4,927

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Criquetpas View Post
    Just because Howard. Thats as good a answer as any. I think it has to do more with tradition, help, last choice grounds, nothing left in the trial game for the little dogs, not sizewise. I personaly think the derbies are a dying stake and the qual is yesterday's derby, especially with OH , the stake in with hunt tests, in our neck of the woods pros dominate the derby when most are on Fridays. The quals are on Saturday with much bigger enteries. Older derby dogs can handle triples with ease. A derby career really starts at about 18 months. So just because.
    As I often do, I find myself here agreeing with Earl. Why no triples? "Just because." Also, because the more birds you add, the greater the tendency is to have tight, technical tests, which reward the trained, lined response.

    I got my start in FT in derby in 1999 and remember traveling all across the country and competing other amateurs. Now, amateur handlers in the derby are few and far between. I wish that clubs devoted more resources - judges, grounds, and help to the derby.
    Competition does not build character - It reveals it.

    Home of:
    FC/AFC Freeridin Wowie Zowie (2003 NARC Finalist)
    FC/AFC Sky Hy Husker Power
    FC/AFC Freeridin Smooth Operator
    FC/AFC Freeridin Vampire Slayer (2007 NARC Finalist)
    AFC Freeridin Maserati (Double Header Winner)

    www.freeridinretrievers.com

  2. #22
    Senior Member Ted Shih's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2003
    Location
    Golden, Colorado
    Posts
    4,927

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by EdA View Post
    Triples in the Derby, why?

    Retired gun in the Derby (double fourth series if needed) why not?

    I have not and would not do a triple in the Derby.

    I have and would again retire a gun on a double in a late series if warranted.

    I would be hard pressed to truly retire a gun in the derby (that is, wrap the gunner in a blind). I would take advantage of the terrain to temporarily retire the gun.
    Competition does not build character - It reveals it.

    Home of:
    FC/AFC Freeridin Wowie Zowie (2003 NARC Finalist)
    FC/AFC Sky Hy Husker Power
    FC/AFC Freeridin Smooth Operator
    FC/AFC Freeridin Vampire Slayer (2007 NARC Finalist)
    AFC Freeridin Maserati (Double Header Winner)

    www.freeridinretrievers.com

  3. #23
    Junior Member Greg Heier's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    Nebraska
    Posts
    27

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Ted Shih View Post

    I would be hard pressed to truly retire a gun in the derby (that is, wrap the gunner in a blind). I would take advantage of the terrain to temporarily retire the gun.
    The disappearing gun.....one of my favorite derby tests.

    Greg Heier

  4. #24
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2004
    Location
    New Haven, CT
    Posts
    1,190

    Default

    I judge Derby and Qual and have never judged an all age. Reason, I can set up a test where I can just watch dogs work without worrying about cutting the numbers down. Why a triple when a double done properly can do the same thing. I have always felt a derby is more about natural ability than trained ability. Even if you brought all dogs back which is my goal you can tell who's in the ribbons after the 2nd series. When I start I hope all dogs pick up the birds even though some will do it much better than others.
    Gentle in what you do. Firm in how you do it.

    CH SILVERCREEK MURRAY SAMUEL (MURRAY) WDQ CGC MH *** 2/16/00 - 12/26/12
    WESTWIND WHISPERING COVE (LARRY son of Murray) WDQ MH ***
    LPK DELAWARE RIVER WHISPERING COVE **(SAVAGE SAM son of FC Chester MH)
    WESTWIND WHISPERING COVE JAY ** ( Larry's son and Murray's grandson)

  5. #25
    Senior Member wayne anderson's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    loretto, mn (pavo, ga in winter)
    Posts
    289

    Default O/H derbies

    Why not go with owner-handler derbies? I think it would encourage more newbies to play the game, and encourage more new people to compete, with no pros and their "trained" dogs to deal with. No need for triples, retired guns, etc. Maybe even save the Derby as a stake!

  6. #26
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2003
    Location
    PINEY FLATS, TN
    Posts
    611

    Default

    It would not bother me one bit to run or judge a wide open triple in the derby, where the guns are very visible to the dogs on their way to the marks. I have seen plenty of derby marks that were retired to ealier until the dog almost trips over the guns. If I had a big field of derby dogs I was judging and the field was very close after 3 series would like to throw a good triple to find the best markers. Lets be real lots of times a hooked gun is the difference between green and blue. I know as a competitor I would much rather run a very tough setup and fail than hook a gun on one of eight marks and that's the only difference between the top five dogs. Would not bother me to see a triple in the first series and last. You know each of us has our own judging styles and that is what keeps our sport fresh. If everyone did the same thing all the time you might as well go play bingo. JMHO Chad
    LUCK - WHEN PREPARATION MEETS REALITY!
    NAFC FC Cody Cut A Lean Grade "Grady" NAFC Paddle Creek's Pack Your Grip "Traveler"
    www.paddlecreekretrievers.com

  7. #27
    Senior Member huntinman's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Location
    Tennessee
    Posts
    6,726

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by wayne anderson View Post
    Why not go with owner-handler derbies? I think it would encourage more newbies to play the game, and encourage more new people to compete, with no pros and their "trained" dogs to deal with. No need for triples, retired guns, etc. Maybe even save the Derby as a stake!
    Some clubs can barely put on a derby now. Many of those handlers you are speaking of are in the HT game these days...
    Bill Davis

  8. #28
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2004
    Location
    Illinois Wisconsin border
    Posts
    873

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by wayne anderson View Post
    Why not go with owner-handler derbies? I think it would encourage more newbies to play the game, and encourage more new people to compete, with no pros and their "trained" dogs to deal with. No need for triples, retired guns, etc. Maybe even save the Derby as a stake!
    I think it's a great idea,but, the pros wouldn't. Somehow Wayne, the Pros have always piggybacked the derby with the open. Don't get it but think about it OH Quals, OH Derbies.
    Earl Dillow

  9. #29
    Senior Member Jeff Bartlett's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    Pacific nw
    Posts
    566

    Default

    I think it would be fun unlike the law!!
    Three In a line or maybe a screw ball how about triple t
    Now them set ups would work all could play and answers

  10. #30
    Junior Member russhardy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Location
    North Pole, AK
    Posts
    26

    Default

    The derby can be an event to grow the sport with new people and still reward the best marking dogs and I think keeping it as doubles will help foster that.

    I've only run a few derbies but I'd like to see the double stay the norm. It's pretty intimidating for a newbie to run one as it is. As has been discussed, throw in a triple becoming the norm and not only are you rewarding the more trained and conditioned dog but also that more experienced handler quite a bit - and I think unneccessarily so. I'm not saying the more experienced handler and trained dog shouldn't have an advantage in a derby - but I think with a properly placed double that they already will and that the newer less experienced handler will be more likely to train for, pay the $80 and try, and hopefully train more and try again if the expectation is it will be doubles.

    I'd much prefer to see a retired gun in a derby than a triple when circumstances (big entry field, time, grounds etc.) dictate or allow. I think well placed marks that can provide answers and separation are out of sight to the dog for either a good amount or at various intervals of their time enroute to AOF as it is.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •