I disagree that the derby (or the qual) for that matter should be designed with the newbie in mind. Field trials by their very design will never appeal to the masses because most (not all) people want far more instant gratification than field trials are designed to deliver (hence the proliferation of all the other retriever games). On the other hand, field trials will never go away either because there will always be some (not most) retriever people who want to compete with their dogs against the very best even if that means going home most weekends defeated by superior performances. As applied to the derby, I think judges should be concerned with putting out very challenging marks without regard to whether that appeals to the newbie or not. With the quality of the dogs, I don't think judges have the luxury most weekend of throwing a lolly pop first series just so everyone gets the first two birds clean. I don't personally think focusing on challenging marks requires retired guns or triples but wouldn't have a problem running under a judge who chose to use retired guns or triples in setting up their tests on their weekend to judge.