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Thinking of Putting Deposit on First Hunting Pup *Pedigree*

10K views 37 replies 24 participants last post by  Decoyin Drake 
#1 ·
Hey guys. I've come a long way since I joined this forum and have been researching hard for a while now. I took some of your advice and turned my search away from an individual pup and more towards finding a breeder. Well I think I've found a winner! I've been in contact with this breeder multiple times over the past 2-3 months and have gathered a very positive impression. I'm posting up a pedigree of the litter that I think I'm going to put a deposit on. Look it over and let me know what you think. Being new, I don't recognize names like you guys do, but to me it looks to be a very promising litter? Be sure to let me know if anything stands out to you, both positive and negative... Price is $700 for males I believe and they are scheduled to be born in late April.

http://www.whiteoakretrievers.com/pedigrees/MorganXRoxy.htm
 
#2 ·
Oh, forgot to mention. Here are health clearances and information for sire and dam.

Sire:
AKC # SR23990406
UKC # R189-630
DOB: February 25, 2005
FC-AFC Calumets Super Sonic x FC-AFC Maple Creeks Maggie May
OFA: LR-167009E24M-PI (EXC);
LR-EL34715M24-PI (Normal)
CERF: LR-46025/2008–36
RD/OSD Normal
CNM: Clear EIC: Clear

Dam:
AKC# SR63616803
DOB - 07/17/2010
CNM/EIC Clear
OFA # LR-199063G24F-VPI OFA#LR-EL55586F24-VPI

 
#6 ·
The pedigree was put up on the website whenever they decided to breed that dam with the sire listed. At that point, the female was not even pregnant yet. However, since then the breeding went as planned and the breeder said they will doing an ultrasound on Monday. I guess they just haven't updated the pedigree yet. At the time it was posted it was still "hypothetical." Since all went well, it should now be "official."
 
#7 ·
It means that they (the breeder) went on GoodDogInfo's website, went the breeding section, went to Hypothetical Breeding, plugged in the desired Sire name, then the desired Dam name, and voila! Instant 5 generation pedigree that can be emailed to themselves (or others!) and/or saved onto their computer for future reference, such as a litter ad :) Great tool and really, as much as I use it, very inexpensive.
 
#8 ·
madd,

the sire has accomplished a great deal and is a nice dog. i am no pedigree snob but i note that the top and bottom are well titled in the second and third generations. you didn't say what your goals are but i will categorize some what if's with my opinion of likelihood of success posted as 5=very high, 1=very low:

if you are looking for a good hunting dog........look no further. 5
if you are looking for a good hunt test dog........your chances of getting one out of this litter that could hrch and or mh are good. 4
if you are looking to get a start in field trials and want to run some derbies........it could be possible to get a competitive dog in this litter. 2
if you are looking for a litter to produce a field champion and the cost of your next pup is no object........you might do a little more research, find titled dogs you like in the first generation too, spend a little more, and improve the odds. n/a
if you are looking to brag about pulling a field champion out of a litter of $700 pups........give it a shot, there just might be one in there? 1 (but it's a 1 no matter which breeding you choose);)

good luck!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
 
#10 ·
I appreciate it everyone. Yea, I haven't got to meet Mrs. Kirby in person yet but we have spoken multiple times on the phone and she seems like she really knows what she's doing and is very genuine in her breeding practices. I hope to meet her tomorrow when I go to a local hunt test that she is judging...

Roseberry, I'm primarily looking for a good hunting dog and a loyal companion. I do believe I would like to participate in some hunt tests, but that is not priority at the moment. Like I said, this will be my first hunting dog (parents had several labs in the past but all were just family pets). I originally planned on getting a cheap pup, but the more I researched the more I learned the importance of good bloodlines and especially health clearances. I think these pups will fit the bill all the way around, at least for my purposes.
 
#9 ·
I don't know the dogs, but I've met Barbara Kirby. I think she's topnotch.
 
#12 ·
I don't think you can go wrong with whiteoak, especially with what your wanting/looking for. When I was looking for a pup I had talked to Barb quite a bit via email. She was more than willing to answer any and all questions that I had and also sent me names and phone numbers of folks for references. I haven't heard a bad thing about them or their dogs and they do really seem to care about them and where they go.
 
#14 ·
FYI this breeding is a total out-cross and the outcome of such breedings are less predictable than a line breeding of knows.
Not that it won't suit you needs, just sayin'.
 
#15 ·
Can you elaborate on this? Not exactly sure what you're saying...

Are you saying that it's a less predictable litter because the dogs in the pedigree aren't well-known? I'm not trying to insinuate that you're wrong, just not sure what you mean by "out-cross" and "line breeding of knows." Sorry, I'm new to all this lol.
 
#16 ·
What does (BLK-BY) mean ? First time I have noticed this.
 
#17 · (Edited)
#19 ·
See the following article that defines out-cross (no common relatives) vs. in-line breeding.

http://www.kirbymountainkennels.com/Articles/practices.html
Thanks. Yea, I believe out-cross breeding should be fine for my applications. I'm not looking for a hunting champion, just a loyal friend that will retrieve birds and enjoy fishing trips with me. :D

Not to butt in, but i bought a started dog from lee of wrl, and couldn't be happier. Trap is a wonderful mellow dog, smart as all get out, and a hunting machine.
I think your focusing on pedigree more than what you will end up with as a family member, and buddy.
Really none of my business, but i didn't check papers first. I saw pics of the parents and talked to lee alot.
Talking to her is what made me go with a dog from her.
I agree with you. Honestly my focus on the pedigree is just to optimize my chances of getting a dog that loves to retrieve birds. I originally payed no attention to pedigrees ( or health clearances for that matter) but after speaking with all the nice folks here on this forum, they convinced me I should search a little deeper and make sure I gave myself the best chance for a strong, healthy, birdy dog. If I decide to go with this litter, I feel that it should be able to meet all my expectations WITH PROPER TRAINING ON MY END. 80+% of any dog's life isn't actually spent hunting, so it's important to me to have a good family pet. However, that other 20% of the time that we are out in the fields or on the water, I want him to be able to take care of business as well.
 
#18 ·
Not to butt in, but i bought a started dog from lee of wrl, and couldn't be happier. Trap is a wonderful mellow dog, smart as all get out, and a hunting machine.
I think your focusing on pedigree more than what you will end up with as a family member, and buddy.
Really none of my business, but i didn't check papers first. I saw pics of the parents and talked to lee alot.
Talking to her is what made me go with a dog from her.
 
#21 ·
That's my plan. I would prefer not to have a hyper dog either, and my plan is to allow the breeder to choose the pup if possible. I want a black male, but aside from that, I'm going to tell the breeder what I'm looking for and allow her to choose the pup assuming there is more than one black male.
 
#22 ·
Got a call from the breeder after the ultrasound today. Sounds like 9, possibly 10 pups. Surely one is bound to end up a black male?!? I'll keep my fingers crossed, but hopefully my first hunting partner is on the way!
 
#26 ·
I am familiar with a number of the dogs in the pedigree and it includes high powered excellent marking dogs, Soupy, Maggie May, Sally South Paw, Ramblin Man, Kate to name a few. Scan Nick in Time was one of the top producing bitches and the Maggie Soupy litter was a top notch breeding.
I would have to disagree with Roseberry, I have seen pedigrees far worse than this produce some pretty fine field trial dogs.
The litter is reasonably priced, health is guaranteed, and you like the breeder. You can go crazy chasing pedigrees and I know of $4 000+ litters that have produced duds. If you are happy, have fun with your new pup and its chances are as good as any of ours of being a good retriever - field or hunt.
 
#28 ·
Honestly, I think it is likely that the litter is more capable of producing a FC caliber dog than I am. I know I'm new to this, but it can't be often that a trainer is able to train his first pup to a FC? I really look forward to training my pup an helping him develop his skills, but the truth is that I'm probably going to be the one learning the most between the two of us. Lol
 
#30 ·
Honestly, I think it is likely that the litter is more capable of producing a FC caliber dog than I am. I know I'm new to this, but it can't be often that a trainer is able to train his first pup to a FC? I really look forward to training my pup an helping him develop his skills, but the truth is that I'm probably going to be the one learning the most between the two of us. Lol
Know any good people that can channel the dead or have you possessed?
 
#31 ·
Hey MD! I wouldnt wait to put the deposit down.
I sent a customer that way 2 weeks ago. These should be great puppies to train, Ive trained 4 out of Morgan 2 males 2 females and had good results , plenty of brains and desire. would also suggest getting the Bill Hillman Training video before your puppy arrives.
you can see 2 of the Morgan offspring on my website www.webfootkennel.com look for Captain Morgans EL Nino (EL)and Captain Morgans Rum Runner (rummy) both Black, I have 2 Morgan pups in training now at 5 mos both Yellow.
 
#32 ·
That Morgan sure is becoming common...ha! He even has pups in Australia!

My two Morgan litters are young, 15 weeks and 8 weeks. The pups love to retrieve, outstanding "hunt" for pups so young, water attitude remarkable for age. Not one complaint! Temperaments WOW. Tails never stop wagging.

Have plenty of photos and video...one showing a wee pup at 8 weeks of age swimming across a pond to retrieve...such a non cheaty heart to boot.
 
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