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Thread: Cripples and Conservation

  1. #21
    Senior Member 7pntail's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by John Robinson View Post
    I was 15 years old when I started duck hunting and almost 40 before I had the opportunity to hunt with a dog. We lived in apartments in suburban LA when I was young so owning a dog wasn't even a consideration. When we hunted the Dad's supervised while us boys would haul and set decoys, build blinds and retrieve birds. It was character building I guess...

    BTW I guess we were pretty shots, plus lead was more lethal as I don't remember loosing cripples. I will say that hunting over a dog is the only way to go, especially since I don't have a teenager to order about.

    John

    No doubt John. I take clean shots, 35 yards would be a big stretch for me, and still have cripples. I am not a great shot, but I would guess much better than average on waterfowl. I n the ares I hunt (not including easy retrieves in rice) I would guess 30 percent would be lost. My labs are true conservationists. Seldom lose one.
    John Stroh, Lodi ca


    There are two spiritual dangers in not owning a farm. One is the danger of supposing that breakfast comes from the grocery, and the other that heat comes from the furnace…........If one has cut, split, hauled, and piled his own good oak, and let his mind work the while, he will remember much about where the heat comes from, and with a wealth of detail denied to those who spend the weekend in town astride a radiator.

    Aldo Leopold

  2. #22

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    NO x10

    I lost my dog 2 years ago. This past year my buddy lost his dog. This year "I" was the dog. My replacement is in training. You are proposing that our group (4 guys) must lay out of hunting for the year that my dog is spending in training.

    Or we would be required to purchase a working dog? The enactment of your law would drive the demand up. This would make an average lab cost $10K. IF you could find one.

    More laws is never the answer.

    Have you ever seen the little white plastic things that you plug into household outlets to keep kids from sticking stuff in them? They are a good idea. I don't want someone enacting a law saying I must have them.

    Remember this:
    Every law takes a freedom away from someone!

  3. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gauge123 View Post
    NO x10

    I lost my dog 2 years ago. This past year my buddy lost his dog. This year "I" was the dog. My replacement is in training. You are proposing that our group (4 guys) must lay out of hunting for the year that my dog is spending in training.

    Or we would be required to purchase a working dog? The enactment of your law would drive the demand up. This would make an average lab cost $10K. IF you could find one.

    More laws is never the answer.

    Have you ever seen the little white plastic things that you plug into household outlets to keep kids from sticking stuff in them? They are a good idea. I don't want someone enacting a law saying I must have them.

    Remember this:
    Every law takes a freedom away from someone!
    This is another good point I never thought of. U r absolutely correct about having to spend more $$$ plus having to wait @ for a dog to get trained. Laws of supply & demand work everywhere, including here. I get so tired of, as previous posts mentioned, hunters w/out dogs wasting a duck b/c someone couldn't find it or was too lazy to look for it. I guess there really is not more ways of preventing this.

  4. #24
    Administrator Chris Atkinson's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 7pntail View Post
    Hobo is itching to go you make a very good point. He has never retrieved a duck, and he hates Chessies--- Bad Combo in the swamp!
    Funny you mention this.

    I thought the same, that if such a law were in place, folks could bring all sorts of "dogs" just to qualify.

    I'm actually taking 2 rescue dogs that my family has grown fond of through the entire Force Breaking process. I'm doing it for 2 reasons: 1 - I want to keep my young dog skills up and I don't see myself bringing a 5th dog into my home anytime soon. So I'm FF training these rescue dogs. 2 - I do some local retriever demos for various summer events. I like to run some non-retrievers, just for the heck of it, and to show you can train other dogs to do it. And I don't like it when they drop the bumper!
    "Determining and applying the criteria for when and when not to use correction is the essence of the art of dog training. I make a distinction between a mistake and a lack of effort." - Mike Lardy - Volume I "After Collar Conditioning"

  5. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by rbr View Post
    More laws? No thanks
    Enough said!
    "Force fetch isn't about retrieving as much as it is conditioning a dog to handle pressure, in a very controlled environment. It's about putting a dog in the position of having to figure out how to turn off pressure by finding the correct response. This translates into numerous areas in training." Sharon Potter.

  6. #26
    Senior Member 7pntail's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chris Atkinson View Post
    Funny you mention this.

    I thought the same, that if such a law were in place, folks could bring all sorts of "dogs" just to qualify.

    I'm actually taking 2 rescue dogs that my family has grown fond of through the entire Force Breaking process. I'm doing it for 2 reasons: 1 - I want to keep my young dog skills up and I don't see myself bringing a 5th dog into my home anytime soon. So I'm FF training these rescue dogs. 2 - I do some local retriever demos for various summer events. I like to run some non-retrievers, just for the heck of it, and to show you can train other dogs to do it. And I don't like it when they drop the bumper!


    Chris, good job. Admirable for sure. I started Hobo on the conditioned retrieve. He is a smart dog and a very good student. He is stellar on "hold" but I must admit I didn't follow through with the process. I didn't reinforce the fetch aspect.

    Awesome for a demo, and your audience will see a different side of these dogs. I certainly have!

    John Stroh, Lodi ca


    There are two spiritual dangers in not owning a farm. One is the danger of supposing that breakfast comes from the grocery, and the other that heat comes from the furnace…........If one has cut, split, hauled, and piled his own good oak, and let his mind work the while, he will remember much about where the heat comes from, and with a wealth of detail denied to those who spend the weekend in town astride a radiator.

    Aldo Leopold

  7. #27
    Administrator Chris Atkinson's Avatar
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    "Determining and applying the criteria for when and when not to use correction is the essence of the art of dog training. I make a distinction between a mistake and a lack of effort." - Mike Lardy - Volume I "After Collar Conditioning"

  8. #28
    Member PassinthruOutdoors's Avatar
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    I love hunting with my dog, but making people have a dog to hunt ducks - NO! It was said early it comes down to ethics and morals. Quick story. A buddy and I were jump shooting ducks in the creeks one afternoon - this during our annual archery hunting camp so no dogs with us. He knocked down his third wood duck which was his first ever limit of woodies. Well that duck laid on the other side of a swollen late October creek and no way to cross near by without getting wet. Without heistation he said hold my gun and started to strip down to his tighty whities and jumped in and swam across. He retrieved his duck and while getting dressed we heard a voice and noticed a bowhunter in a tree stand about 50 yards or so away on the other side of the creek - he was praising my buddies retrieving skills. This wasn't thr first time someone swam to get a duck and most certainly won't be the last. It was the way we were brought up whether swimming to get a duck or tracking a wounded deer for two days. You go until you can't absolutely go anymore. period! Forcing people to hunt with dogs won't fix the real issues. JMO

  9. #29
    Senior Member forhair's Avatar
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    A good dog will not necessarily get you invited to a hunt, but a bad dog will certainly decrease your invitations. An ethical approach is far superior to more laws.

  10. #30
    Senior Member 7pntail's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chris Atkinson View Post
    COOL!! THANKS FOR THE PICS. Nice looking pitt! Never thought I would say that in a lifetime. That is quite a "buck" you have made for training.
    John Stroh, Lodi ca


    There are two spiritual dangers in not owning a farm. One is the danger of supposing that breakfast comes from the grocery, and the other that heat comes from the furnace…........If one has cut, split, hauled, and piled his own good oak, and let his mind work the while, he will remember much about where the heat comes from, and with a wealth of detail denied to those who spend the weekend in town astride a radiator.

    Aldo Leopold

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