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Thread: long gun problems

  1. #11
    Senior Member Ted Shih's Avatar
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    What Earl said. Plus, when you train, shoot a lot of long bird singles, with the short bird out - so that the dog understands that he may not get a short bird. Also, shoot flyer at long station - maybe use a big white chicken. Make the long bird exciting.
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  2. #12
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    Our group uses bumper boys so no ones really out there bird boy wise. Don't get me wrong they'd do it in a heart beat its just more of a "I don't want to disrupt the flow thing". When they've got a triple set up with longest bird at 125 I don't want to say hey my dogs coming up can you run out there 300 yards and you run out there 150 and throw these.

    I'm going to try the t shirt thing even though the wingers are solid white pvc. I do have a siren on the wingers but the sound did not draw his attention off the short bird. So should I walk up to where we are even with the short bird and throw the long one then retreat back to the mat and throw the short bird? Or should I bring the long one in closer say 50 yards further than short bird and run the setup then gradually back it up?
    Last edited by blake_mhoona; 03-25-2013 at 09:12 AM.

  3. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by blake_mhoona View Post
    Our group uses bumper boys so no ones really out there bird boy wise. I'm going to try the t shirt thing even though the wingers are solid white pvc. I do have a siren on the wingers but the sound did not draw his attention off the short bird. So should I walk up to where we are even with the short bird and throw the long one then retreat back to the mat and throw the short bird? Or should I bring the long one in closer say 50 yards further than short bird and run the setup then gradually back it up?
    Have them stand by the bumper boys. The long one is your prop. Too much motion going on with walking. If you have a remote that fires a shot, put one long for the shot attention, then fire the winger with the bird. Just trying to brainstorm.
    Put one very short, make it look like the long one is reallylong. Just keep brainstorming no pat answer when training alone. You still need excitement of the groups to run the derby!
    Last edited by Criquetpas; 03-25-2013 at 09:29 AM.
    Earl Dillow

  4. #14
    Senior Member Ken Bora's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by blake_mhoona View Post
    ....... Don't get me wrong they'd do it in a heart beat its just more of a "I don't want to disrupt the flow thing". When they've got a triple set up with longest bird at 125 I don't want to say hey my dogs coming up can you run out there 300 yards and you run out there 150 and throw these.......

    at some point all bumper boys need loading. a live person needs to scamper out. Time your line rotation to the feller reloading is at the BB when you run your dog. Simple fix. and ditch that need to go with the flow and fit in smurf. If you bust your hump tossing and planting for a group, any group worth its salt will do the same back. Tell what you need, and brainstorm (like the run with the guy at the BB) about how to get it with the least disruption.
    And you know what? I'll bet someone else will follow you, once you break the mold. And ask for the same set up. 'cause that is the nature of folks.
    and when all by yourself, your one winger in a row or 3-4 stickmen, as single retrieves, is a great homework task for your issue.
    "So what is big is not always the Trout nor the Deer but the chance, the being there. And what is full is not necessarily the creel nor the freezer, but the memory." ~ Aldo Leopold

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  5. #15
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    the winger does fire a shot so i'll try that. as for the BBs needing reloading we have 3 12 shooters and 8 dogs so when we set up a drill the only reloading is picking them up for next setup. but i'll see what can be done

    but for right now our weekend group is on a hiatus till it warms up and to give the dogs a break from duck season. lasting a little longer than expected. but the head honcho had to put his dog down this winter so i'm guessing he's still dealing with that. we should get cranked up pretty soon. i suspect alot of my prime field trial training though will come during the week though. 6-715 pm

  6. #16
    Senior Member rboudet's Avatar
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    If your group has that many people why would you use bumber boys at all the stations? Never undstood why groups would do that.

  7. #17
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    What Ken said, maybe run first,then maybe another time run last. If you have at least two or three run last after they get what they want. The area all scented up helps with young dog. HRC folks don't seem around here anyway to use a lot of birds in training? They do now! You at some point are going to have to use birds, at least simulated flyers shooting dead birds from a winger in lieu of flyers. We have all been in your shoes from time to time with limited resources, I know I have. Thats where the pros are at a advantage, sometimes, people, birds, set ups, many dog scents with many dogs, grounds, you have to improvise and adapt, someone said that? You can overcome if you work hard and are creative . Drag a bird around the area towards the hunt with a S pattern so not a direct line. Buy the Gunz Up tape as a example to play during training use multiple holding blinds, use a mat, shout cadence in the holding blind, guns up dog to the line, etc. Stay in holding blind, someone fire a blank pistol before you come out, saying dog to the line etc, etc.
    Practice no birds, throw bird, dog doesn't get retrieve, go back in holding blind start all over again. Probably preaching to choir, but, others read these threads too.
    Last edited by Criquetpas; 03-25-2013 at 11:04 AM.
    Earl Dillow

  8. #18
    Senior Member Ken Bora's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by blake_mhoona View Post
    the winger does fire a shot so i'll try that. as for the BBs needing reloading we have 3 12 shooters and 8 dogs
    how many people come with the 8 dogs?
    "So what is big is not always the Trout nor the Deer but the chance, the being there. And what is full is not necessarily the creel nor the freezer, but the memory." ~ Aldo Leopold

    "The Greatest Obstacle to Discovery is not Ignorance -- It is the Illusion of Knowledge" ~ Daniel Boorstin

  9. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ken Bora View Post
    how many people come with the 8 dogs?
    5

    and yes on the birds i planned on buying some this weekend at the flea market but on second thought with easter this weekend and going home to see the family i wouldnt be able to take care of them. so i'll be going the weekend after easter to get some more.

  10. #20
    Senior Member mitty's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by blake_mhoona View Post
    5

    and yes on the birds i planned on buying some this weekend at the flea market but on second thought with easter this weekend and going home to see the family i wouldnt be able to take care of them. so i'll be going the weekend after easter to get some more.
    And there you go: bring your dog, have the family throw, bring white coats for them to wear!

    I don't have the experience and credentials of the other posters. I speak to you as a fellow newbie, and I trained my first pup mostly by myself till she was maybe 15 or 16 months old.

    Everyone talks about the importance of marking in the derby. But handling is a huge, huge component as well. Especially as you get to the third or fourth series, and the gunners are hidden in shadows. You need to train your dog to start searching for the gunners as she steps on the mat, you need to train yourself to recognize when she sees the gunner. You need to train her to keep her eye on the fall till you direct her to look at another gunner.

    Stickmen help but they are not as exciting as real people. If dog doesn't know the difference now, it will after you run a derby or two.

    You need to find a mentor. Inflict yourself on someone if you must, you are unlikely to figure it all out on your own, even with the great help you get here at RTF. Drive 8 hours if you have to...

    Good luck!
    Renee P

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