RetrieverTraining.Net - the RTF banner

Hip guarantee question

5K views 27 replies 24 participants last post by  frontier 
#1 ·
Here's my situation. I sold a pup to a guy last year the pup is 14 months old right now. I sell all my dogs with a hip eye guarantee until 26 months. With an official ofa result. Both parents hips are excellent. He emails me says he got hip prelims done on his 14 month old pup, the results came back mild hip dysphasia. He is wanting me to give him his money back and he wants to put the dog down. I told him i have absolutley no problem giving him his money back as soon as he tested her at 24 months and got an official rejected result. i tried telling him that there is a chance her hips will tighten up as she matures. And to give her a chance, but he is hell bent that nothing will change and they will only get worse. Well long story short he flew off the handle says I'm trying to get out of the contract this and that. First off all what would you all do? Second have any of you seen a pup prelim with mild dysphasia and actually test good after 2 years?
 
#2 · (Edited)
That situation is simple to answer. Myself, I would give him his money back now in exchange for the pup. I would have advised just as you did to wait until the pup is older. But given what you described I would be asking for the pup back immediately, NOW ! I would want that pup back and he can have is money !


Yes, the guy who bought the pup is making a big mistake and not following the contract..... But my priority would be the right thing for the pup.
 
#3 ·
Do the right thing.

If you have the stipulation in your contract that a dysplastic result from the OFA in a 24 month old dog warrants a refund, that's what you should stick to. Prelimbs, don't meet the requirement.

I also can't believe that he is serious about putting a 14 month old dog down, due to a mild result from a prelimb. I can understand wanting a refund, and being allowed to keep the dog. Or, even accepting a "replacement".

But, to volunteer to take on the expense and the pain of putting down a young dog that they have invested time, money, and emotion into over an OFA mild prelimb, is more than a little odd.
 
#4 ·
Be sure to give him his money back, and you should get your dog back immediately in exchange for the money. Somebody that would want to put the 14 month old dog down ahould never be allowed to buy another dog from anybody...ever! I understand that people want dogs with excellent phenotypic conformation, but to euthanize a dog with mildyly dysplastic hips at 14 months old wothout any other signs of hip dysplasia on the basis of xrays alone is absolutely ridiculus. Dysplastic or not, that dog deserves a better than that!

Hip dysplasia is not only genetic, but is multifactoral, as many may know. Other causes such as trauma, nutrtion, etc can play a role. I dont know what your contract says, but i would really define the method of hip dysplasia evaluation as well as age (ofa, pennhip, 2 yrs old, etc, so there is no negotiating in a circumstance like this. Keep us posted!
 
#5 ·
Thats exactly what my guarantee says. "Guaranteed to be certifiable AT 24 months of age" I was SHOCKED too when he said he'd just rather put the dog down. He said he has invested thousands in the dog and did not want to waste money on food and another exam in 10 months. Then proceeded to basically blame me for him wasting money on the prelim. blah blah blah. He got me a little fired up, called me a few names and questioned my integrity. I could go on and on......
 
#7 ·
Return his money , get the dog.

My guarantee is that the dog will not become LAME from hip or elbow dysplasia , I never guarantee an OFA rating...too many variables including OFA !
 
#8 ·
My first questions .... How do you put "thousands" into a dog as the owner of a 14 month old pup?? Think I'm with copterdoc on this one ... There is something else going on here. Get the dog back THEN give him his money back.
 
#21 ·
8 months of training at $600 per = $4800. Give the guy his $1500 back...or $2000 for that matter, get the pup...and keep him yourself, or sell as a started dog with NO hip guarantees clearly communicating the potential concern upfront - and possible "fix" him/her. Lots of folks wanting a started dog with no intent to breek with 8 months of pro training would snatch him out of your hands for $2000+.
 
#9 ·
WOW. That's just - crazy. I feel like it's a two part answer for me. I wouldn't have a problem with you sticking to your health guarantee - it says OFA at 24 months. I've had two situtations similar to yours over the years. One was a guy that didn't have the OFA done until the pup was 3+ years old. He sent me an email and then got smart with me, and never sent me any documentation. I have a 26 month guarantee. I stuck to it. Mainly becuase of his attitude. The other was a 1 year old that started having problems, her vet said hip dysplasia, they took her to a top notch University vet program and had more tests done. They said she needed surgery. The folks called and were heartbroken. Sent documentation as soon as I asked for it showing where they had the surgery done and had her spayed. I refunded their money, even though they didn't have an OFA result. It just felt like the right thing to do.

I would want to get that pup out of that home as quickly as possible. Not becuase it's the right thing to do by the owner, but becuase it's the right thing to do by the pup.

To answer your last question - I personally have not seen a prelim come back better at 2 years old.
 
#11 · (Edited)
I'd want a copy of the Pre-lims, for my vet to examine, you need the documentation. Still if you have it in your contract result at 24mt. you don't have to accept pre-lims, that's not your contract. But as he's so non-chalant about putting a 14mt dog down, that he's invested so much money in, perhaps has a vet agreeing to it, and doesn't want to wait, it seems like something else is going on. It doesn't make any since unless the dog is crippled or having other health issues, associated with the hips poor rating. Doesn't seem like an owner I want any of my pups with, You might want to get the dog back, for that reason alone. If you do refund the money the dogs is yours, he cannot put it down, still I'm wondering about her condition with a situation like this.

I have seen a dog come back good-fair after a semi-dys prelim, I've seen them come back good on a very large dog, after the Orto-vet told me to wait another year and send them in at 3. Dogs particularly big dogs grow slower, hips and bone structure can still be changing, (there's a reason they are called Pre-lims)dogs are still growing, if the rating couldn't change they'd just be Lims ;) & OFA wouldn't make you wait until 2. Let's not forget bad positioning, wrong interpretations etc.
 
#28 ·
Get the dog back... I would also ask for the complete medical record on the dog from the vet..there may be far more too this dog's health than just mild HD on a preliminary. I've had pups that were mild HD under 12 months and passed at 2 years of age... I've even had a couple of clients rant at me over a OFA fair which is still a passing OFA rating.
 
#13 ·
What Huntemup said. Could very well be bad positioning. But with the put her down attitude, get the dog....:(
 
#14 ·
Agreeing with everything said here, but make sure you have any registration papers signed over to you and in hand from this owner when you get the dog and before any money changes hands.
 
#16 ·
I would pay the fellow for the pup and take her back. It is possible that she was x-rayed slightly before or after being in heat and this could have a bearing on the prelim as well as how the positioning was done at time of x-ray. I doubt she will get worse than mildly dysplastic. If she doesn't get a number at 24 mos., she can always be spayed and still make a great dog.
 
#18 ·
I bought one of my pups back from a guy one time. Actually my wife made me do it after we found out how the dog was being treated poorly. Best thing that ever happened to me or the dog. She has been a great hunting dog for13 yrs and the easiest dog I ever trained once we over came her poor social skills.

Not about health issues or guarantees but do the right thing by the dog,
 
#19 ·
i had a guy call me and tell me he didn't want his dog any more because "he crapped in obedience class." Said it was so embarassing and stinky...how that was my fault as the breeder was beyond me. He wouldn't even bring the dog back to my home--he brought it to my office.

Had a friend who lived down the street from him. Right after he returned my 1-yr old dog, he showed up with two yellow pups that were from "champion" bloodlines. Shortly after, one of the pups couldn't walk or stand...then the other. They were both affected with CNM.

My pup left in the back seat of a cadillac to his new home a few weeks later.

Meredith
 
#22 ·
Give the refund and get that pup back ... quick. There is more of a problem with the owner, probably not the pup!!
 
#23 ·
? PUT THE DOG DOWN ? I think the guy is trying to squeeze your ears. Or...the guy has
done something to the dog that he wants to hide. Or he would just show up at your door
with the dog and the pix. Maybe the animal cops need to pay him a visit. MAYBE should be on another
thread but ? will a vet put a dog down for that reason ?

my 2 sents
 
#24 ·
The pup is 14 months old and the chap doesn't seem to have any attachment to the dog whatsoever. Regardless of how he says the hips are graded, pay him the money and get the dog back. You don't want one of your puppies with this guy. There are all kinds of reasons that could be at the heart of the issue but don't worry about trying to figure them out. Pay him the money, say thanks, and run like the dickens.

In a year you can get the films re-shot and see. But no matter what, no matter if the dog grades dysplastic then or not, you don't want the dog with him now. Get her back.
 
#25 ·
Welcome to the world of a breeder. If you stay in the business you will run into great people and a very few idiots. Guarantees are nice BUT in reality, when a pup leaves your kennel YOU have absolutely no control on what happens to that pup. What conditions was it raised in. What food was it fed. Was it injured by the buyers kids pulling legs out of socket, etc. The list of 'what if's goes on and on. Give him his money back if he returns the pup, at his expense, ASAP. He doesn't need a dog and especially a nice well bred pup.

Even if both parents are OFA Excellent, there is still a 25% chance of having a pup with bad hips. You just have to do your research and then pray all goes well. HD is out there but as a breeder we all do our best to lessen the odds of problems.

We have kept a pup or two whos prelim looked iffy and at 24 months it came back excellent. Took a friends pup for a second opinion after an OFA FAIR rating at 24 months. Other Vet took xrays and submitted them and they came back Excellent. Position of dog has a lot to do with the OFA results. In the future it wouldn't hurt to add a second xray by a Vet with lots of OFA experience.

Sold a pup to a 'runner' who ran the 8 week old pup on concrete and asphalt every day and damaged his hips and shoulders. Threatened law suit - so I figured it was cheaper to give his money back. It was a good lesson to learn more about the person buying one of our pups. If it doesn't feel right, don't sell a pup to that person. If you have taken a deposit, return it. That is your protection against idiots and morons.
 
This is an older thread, you may not receive a response, and could be reviving an old thread. Please consider creating a new thread.
Top