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Lining issues

3K views 16 replies 13 participants last post by  RookieTrainer 
#1 ·
I have been working on FTP with my my lab and she has a tendency to "lock in" on something other than the pile. Meaning she will be lined toward the pile but is locked onto something to the left that she thinks is the pile. My question is how do you convey to them that "hey your looking in the wrong direction"? I assume the answer is to heel her and re-align until she looks in the direction of the pile, but this takes several times usually for her to lose focus on whatever she focused on. Even with my hand out in front pointed toward the pile, she still isn't looking in the right direction. This isn't all the time, if she sees the pile she will lock onto it. So how do I correct this so she isn't searching for something but is taking my cast and looking in the direction I am pointing?
 
#2 ·
I don't know how long you've been working on this and maybe you've already done it, but you can start by "identifying the pile." Sit the dog and walk out and throw a bumper to the pile to show her where the pile is. You could make it easier for her to see the pile by running down a slight hill where she can see it too.

You should line the dog up without your hand. You're not to point to where she should go. Line her up and when she's looking where you want put your hand out as a cue that she's looking in the right direction and is about to be sent.

Hope this helps, good luck with your dog.
 
#5 ·
If you're doing it right it'll be fine. I don't know how you're doing it. If you follow a program correctly it'll be fine.

There's a lot to it though. You are teaching the dog and some dogs are real good at pretending that they don't know what you mean, as a way of getting out of doing it. Could she fit in that category?
 
#6 ·
Could be, but I don't think that's the case in this situation. Maybe I'll shorten the distance up some and progress back at a slower rate. Thanks for the help and thanks for the tip on not putting the hand down until after she is looking in the correct direction. Didn't realize I was doing that incorrectly
 
#7 ·
It sounds as if she is "bugging". Bugging is where they won't look in the direction of the pile. Thinking if they don't look out there they won't have to go. Persistant bugging can be corrected by saying "heel" and stepping forward and nicking the dog. Do this as soon as the bugging begins.

However before that, move closer to the pile so that the dog can't help but see the pile.

In FTP the pile should be mostly visible in the beginning at only about 20 ft or so. Then gradually move further out. My pile work is done at only 35-40 yds in mowed grass (back yard). Do lots of remote sits casts.

Mostly the dog can see the pile. Be sure and teach the pile location.

Hope this helps.
 
#8 ·
FYI your hand is not a rifle sight, but mearly a "yes that's the right way and you're about to go." The hand is commonly missunderstood as a directional pointing device.
 
#10 ·
I have found that as he is lined up and looking in the general line, as he moves his eyes and head ever so slightly I would say no... no.. when is not on the precise line and good... good... when he has the line I want. he has learned not to move from the good and locks in. I then put my hand down to indicate get ready and lastly back. They say a dog won't lie to you I don't know it that is 100%. He once in training really wanted to go right, he looked right with his head and his eyes. I real healed him got his body lined, his head, and I thought his eyes. As I gave the back.... Oh yea he went right. Did he lie to me!!! I guess this is what they mean by reading your dog. Good luck!!!! Enjoy the ride!!!!
 
#17 ·
One of the hardest lessons to learn is that sometimes they are going where they are going regardless. And, although they will normally go where their spine is pointing, they will absolutely lie to you on occasion.

So, do you "win the fight" at the line or do you kick them off, stop them quickly, and handle to where you need them to go?
 
#11 ·
Based on what you wrote, I don't see this as bugging. The dog is locking in on something, dogs that are bugging do not do this, they avoid looking. Also, I would ask, how do you know what your dog is looking at? Just looking at the back or top of their head won't tell you what their eyes are focused on, especially if what you think they locked on is fairly close to the pile. Have you done any pop-up marks to get a read on the dogs head/eye set to better understand this?

/Paul
 
#12 ·
You could help her understand with something clearly identifiable such as a bleach bottle on a stick or a road cone. Phase it out as you gain success and confidence
 
#13 ·
It sounds to me like you are trying to create your own problems.

The dog knows where the pile is. Just send the dog. Quit worrying about lining.

In fact, most of your sends should be from a front finish remote sit. Not from your side.
 
#14 ·
This!!!!!!!!! Absolutly THIS!!!

Most(if not all at the beggining) sends from remote position.. Drumm that back pile into the dogs head... Make sure he understands its location , and Go!!!!
Spend Time on this.... It isnt a period of DAYS like you might read.. It depends on the dog..

Work on a good front finish, a straight square sit when he returns to the front finish position.. He will prolly look away from you, but dont make an issue out of it,,, Just send..

I learned there is a LOT to pile work..... It takes time...

Gooser
 
#15 · (Edited)
This is jumping the gun a bit,, But,, Think about the location of your dog when you are giving casts when you run a cold blind..

The dog is sitting square, facing you,,waiting for a cast.
You really want the dog to understand that "Back" cast means MOVE!!! and go away from You...

Your lining drills come later.. Get that Back pile drummed into the dogs head,, from MOSTLY remote sits...

Do you feel your FF is really solid??

Gooser
 
#16 ·
As mentioned before, FTP and lining are two different stages in a program.

Yeah, you're worried about the head movement and so on. Fido is probably still young (correct?) so Fido will work it out.

As an aside: I suspect some dogs with a lot of hunting experience might create for themselves a tendency to turn their heads while going out to a mark or blind because of the multiple birds down and the dog wanting to remember/look-for-movement/whatever. As a hunter and a trainer/handler (non-active at the moment), I don't mind this. In fact my dog has done this during a hunt where she saw movement of a cripple and went to it instead of the dead duck in front of her (I didn't have to say anything to her). Obviously this doesn't relate to a young dog going the FTP....
 
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