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New Pup /sad pedigree

7K views 38 replies 37 participants last post by  duk4me 
#1 ·
Just got a pup a black female. Ive been out of the training game for around 12 years. Shes only 12 wks and retrieving good. So far the worst thing about her is her pedigree. Theirs only 2 titles in 5 generations, and that was from the first generation. Any chance I can title this dog?
 
#2 ·
Does the dog know how to read its own papers ? ...Are you a smarter trainer than you were 12 years ago ?

Do you think you can title the dog ? How committed are you ?
 
#4 ·
arise,
imho every performance pedigree started somewhere. 20 years from now your dog might just be titled and in the third generation of the best, most titled pedigrees in the retriever world. work hard and give him a chance!
 
#5 ·
I am probably not the person to give a great scientific answer to this but...

I think that a bigger part of the success of a dog is in the amount of QUALITY training and time a person is able to put into them, more then how many titles there are in their pedigree. If your goals are FC/AFC, then I think the challenge is up to you, kind of like Bon indicated.

I say give it 100% and post the pictures of the ribbons as they come.

Mark
 
#6 ·
I have seen dogs with no pedigree in the background turn out to be really nice dogs that people have had but put a lot of hard work in the training.Then I know one guy got a dog with great pedigree and the dog was awful no training on his part.I think a good part of everything is good training.
 
#7 · (Edited)
My dog Maddie has no titles showing on her pedigree going back three generations and turned out great.
 
#8 ·
My sad pedigree is my very first master hunter. We had a fantastic time training and learning together.
 
#10 ·
Ben does not have anything impressive in his pedigree unless you look way back... about 4 generations... but he has turned out to be an awesome dog, and probably could have done more if I'd have known what I do now about training... I say if don't count him out! If the ability is there, give him a chance to prove himself.
 
#20 ·
You shoulda heard Billy braggin' about Ben in the chat room. :p
 
#13 ·
I am a huge proponent of giving every dog a chance. I have a golden retriever X mutt black lab mix that has gotten through double T with a rookie trainer...ME! I really think that good training and a great bond with your dog goes a long way.
 
#14 ·
I wouldn't worry about the titles. I haven't bought a dog yet whose parents were titled at the time of purchase. What is important is if your dog is birdy, has memory, marks well, and is trained.
 
#16 ·
My first lab was fresh out of the newspaper for $200 and at that time i had no clue what a title meant or what ukc was. My interest was that it had "papers" and that her parents were solid hunting dogs. This (95') i believe was far before all the health clearances of today, not to mention all the internet posts that could potntially cast negative thought. I read a dog traing book cover to cover, right or wrong, and started doing it my own way and we learned together. From picking up doves, ducks, treeing squrrels, blood trailing a deer, sitting at heel draped in my camocoat behind brush watching 2 long beards strut on my first turkey kill, to being a foot warmer every night in bed - there is hope. At two years old someome mentioned "hunt test" so we gave it a shot going 4-4 in Seasoned and 6-6 in finshed - and lived a few days shy of 15 yrs old - hunting hard until 11. Lucky? Most likely! Is there hope for you? absolutely!
 
#17 ·
like other posters have stated give it a chance and dont doubt your pup, who knows you may have the next srs champion if you work hard enough and have enough skill as a trainer, good luck.
 
#18 ·
Well I blame my addiction on this sport on my $225 back yard bred Mutt...ended up with titles in NAHRA, HRC and AKC....it's all his fault, why did he have to have that **** eating grin on his face when he retrieved his first live pigeon at 10 weeks old? God I miss him everyday!

And not once did he ever ask me about his pedigree - I don't even think he knew he was a dog, I think he truly thought he was human! ;)
 
#19 ·
Titled dogs a few generations back, likely a better pedigree than the owner. (lol)
I say this tongue in cheek as it reminds me of quip offered by Dennis Robins of Sundee Retreivers.
Dennis listed all the National and field trial titled dogs in a pedigree of a very nice breeding of proven dogs on both sides to a prospective customer. When the customer question if the pedigree of the dogs would pass muster. Dennis replied, "Madame, the pedigree behind this breeding is likely better than your family tree."

Daniel Shnitka
 
#21 ·
In 1973 I was given my first Lab pup. I didn't hunt. We were just looking for a pet. In 1976 my neighbor, an avid hunter, was tired of seeing this tennis ball & frisbee dog going to waste so he took us out dove hunting. 116 degrees in the Southern California desert, dog never been trained or been shot over or even seen a game bird. He retrieved two limits. I'd never seen him happier. I was hooked. I found a hunting partner, bought a 77' F250 and the rest as they say is history.

Now, 40 years and 5 generations later Gage is the Great-Great Grandson of that wonderful dog. I bred once each generation for the "replacement" hunting dog. I never once gave any thought to titles or pedigree in the females we bought to breed. They were mostly "backyard bred". I was very lucky because each instinctively understood and loved bird hunting. It's almost as though I've had the same dog for 40 years.

Gage is the first of this line to take up the Hunt Test game. He and I have been learning together and at a little past two years old he has a "Seasoned" title, a "WR" title and 3 legs toward a Senior.

I guess you could say he has a "Sad" pedigree but I couldn't be happier!
 
#26 · (Edited)
Look at Seaside Pelican Pete's pedigree. He won the master national.
Huh????...don't tell Yozamp and Zylla

Look at Seaside Pelican Pete's pedigree. He won the master national. "Dame" there is not one champion on her side for a few generations. Enough said.

Not sure what pedigree you looked at but if the above is true it is definitely not Pete's!
 
#24 · (Edited)
Pete is an amazing dog and I am proud to be one of those who shot flyers and threw marks for him. However his dam's pedigree isn't empty. Here is a link:
http://www.huntinglabpedigree.com/pedigree.asp?id=41619

I have a dog that had solid wall of champions 4 generations back, but the breeder only did a few attempts at field trials over the years. It was essentially an empty pedigree. My inexperience with the games got me mixed up with a really brutal trainer and we had a year of remedial work as well as farming him out to several trainers to get specific issues ironed out. He went on to win 24 Master passes and 3 Master National appearances with a pass. He earned an RJ and a JAM in an Amateur. The Jam came with my wife handling as a rookie handler. The judges later said he had it won going away until he needed handling on the last bird.

Pedigrees are an index to the possibility a dog may present to a prospective buyer. Pedigrees can be empty for any number of reasons. But what really matters is the quality of your dog's training, his desire to do the work, and your relationship with your dog.
 
#25 · (Edited)
Get the dog you love and love the dog you get!

Enjoy your pup, learn together and enjoy bonding.

My pup's pedigree is a who's who in FC/AFC's.
It is solid.
So far not many titles but lots of fun and laughter and even frustration.
The pedigree does not guaruntee ribbons or titles.
But, my life would be lacking without him, I wouldn't trade one moment of our time together for anything!
That is greater to me than any ribbon or title.

Best of luck to you!!!!!
I hope you are happy with your pup!
 
#29 ·
I will take a different approach. I think a lot of health baggages come with some breedings with no name pedigrees.
The first two generations contribute 75 percent of the pups make-up talent etc. After that approximately 12 percent and who cares. The price of the pups is the cheapest part of training, raising, caring, feeding, over the life of the dog.

One never knows where this dog journey will take you. It may start out as we want a pet/hunting dog to many venues.
One takes a female pup, I can always breed her future answer, but, health issues, no name pedigree etc? I have been down the road and learned a few lessons along the way. Get the best pup you can afford. I know, no pup is worth more then 500 bucks unless i am selling it ! In the long run it may be the cheaper route but? I personally know of many healthy dogs with no name pedigrees that went on to great venues, hunt tests, field trials, but, had limited breeding offers because of lack of a pedigree and/or health issues genetically . Everything being equal , not raining on your parade have fun, good luck, enjoy the journey. Just presenting the other side.
 
#30 ·
Look at the titles on my boy.
There are no titles at all, except show Champion, in his pedigree, anywhere.
Go for it! A lot of times all it means is everyone was too busy to title the dog, or didn't care about titles.
 
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