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Thread: Michigan starts a new era in that state.

  1. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by HPL View Post
    I don't know what the laws are where you have lived, but it they weren't right to work states and if you have go join the union to be hired, THAT'S coercion.
    Here the employees have the ability to vote a Union in or out by a majority vote, I would not call that coercion but something else.

  2. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Schmersal View Post
    In the spirit of conversation, I went to the National Right To Work Foundation and Committee web sites. On these sites it is stated that the NRWF is neither anti-union nor pro-labor. (So it is obviously political) No where could I find a statement that informs me what the NRWF is trying to accomplish, other than this. The NRWF did make it clear that they are trying to stop organized labor from donating funds to back political proponents of their cause. And that your donation is completely tax free. They have many articles about how much each labor organization donated to each candidate and where, and wether they reported the proper amounts or not and why it is not right. They had no problem siting the many members of unions who have been abused, mistreated, and forced to pay union dues by those unions, without mentioning the many employees who have been mistreated, abused even killed by management. I came to the conclusion that the NRWF is basically a ploy to limit the political donations that labor and their unions can donate to the pro-labor factions in our government. Couple this with the new " paycheck deception bills " that the right wingers are pushing on us and it will be very hard for organized labor to back candidates, thus allowing the right wing to get more in donations toward their campaigns. So now the big corporate machine can donate tax free to the cause of lowering wages and cutting benefits to raise profits, while the pro-labor forces in our country are now at a disadvantage when trying to back their candidates. The ugly part of it is that these people are selling to the working class of this nation that RTW laws are good for them and that it will help them get and keep better jobs in the future, when in reality it is weakening their stance in selling their labor. So now we have a more productive and profitable worker in the US that is being sold a bill of goods by a politically driven corporate backed group who's only interest is killing the pro-labor movement in this country to promote their profits and political careers. They will kill organized labor in this country by making the unions defend and provide benefits for non-dues paying members and not allowing dues paying members to have a voice, just like they are killing this country by making the working class pay for and support the non-working class and not letting the working class have a voice. It will be a race to the bottom and a fast track there.




    "I am a union member " a.k.a Union Thug " , we live here and pay taxes here, we work hard to support our families, we are not the problem and we are not the enemy. If you are jealous of our benefits fight for your own not against ours. The rich created this problem and they are pitting the middle class families against each other." I don't ask for what I don't earn, I take pride in my work and my union, but I do expect a fair voice when it comes to my government. My union has never given me a reason not to trust them but my government has, so until they earn my trust back I will stand by my union!
    I will quote you. "IF YOU ARE JEALOUS OF OUR BENEFITS, FIGHT FOR YOUR OWN." I took it to mean that those who had LESS than you, as in benefits, then go fight for your own. Sort of like those who had accumulated more wealth would say "if you are jealous of what the wealthy have created, THEN GO CREATE YOUR OWN! If you feel the business owner doesn't compensate you satisfactorily for your labor, THEN GO FIND YOURSELF A BETTER JOB or barring that then go create your own business. Put your jealousy aside.

    As for my friend being able to retire, HE SPENT LESS THAN HE MADE. As my father used to say, "it is not how much you make, it is how much you save". I think he was much smarter than most. If the rich are part of the problem, THEN SO ARE THE UNIONS.

  3. #13
    Senior Member zeus3925's Avatar
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    First not all jobs in non RTW states are u8nion. Most are not. Second even with shops that are union, a worker hyas a right to opt out. He may have to pay a representation fee that is less than a full union dues. But, a function of the union is to negotiate compensation and working conditions for all in that shop. Every person in that shop benefits from the efforts of that union.

    But lets talk straight for a minute. This Republican crusade against unions is more about political power than concern for the worker. Since its establishment, the Republican party has never given a tinkers damn about the working man. It still doesn't. It is true that for the most part unions have supported the Democrats. You remember who your friends are. The anti-union Republican propaganda is a ginned up attempt to get at the funding source and campaign staffing of the opposition. That's really what republicans are about and they aren't honest enough to come clean.
    Last edited by zeus3925; 04-01-2013 at 07:52 AM.
    Zeus

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  4. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by zeus3925 View Post
    First not all jobs in non RTW states are u8nion. Most are not. Second even with shops that are union, a worker hyas a right to opt out. He may have to pay a representation fee that is less than a full union dues. But, a function of the union is to negotiate compensation and working conditions for all in that shop. Every person in that shop benefits from the efforts of that union.

    But lets talk straight for a minute. This anti-union Republican crusade against unions is more about political power than concern for the worker. Since its establishment, the Republican party has never given a tinkers damn about the working man. It still doesn't. It is true that for the most part unions have supported the Democrats. You remember who your friends are. The anti-union Republican propaganda is a ginned up attempt to get at the funding source and staffing of the opposition. That's really what republicans are about and they aren't honest enough to come clean.
    zeuss, please explain to me how the Democrats give a "tinkers damn" about the working man?
    I remind you, DA UNION (historically rife with violence and corruption) is nothing more than a cash cow for the progressives movement.

    It's about Pelosi's "permanent majority," and I'll give you they no longer evem try to hide it.

    You will, in your lifetime, regret at some level what you are claiming to support.

    For the record, my only anti-union stand is public employees unions.
    Stan b & Elvis

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    Quote Originally Posted by road kill View Post
    zeuss, please explain to me how the Democrats give a "tinkers damn" about the working man?
    I remind you, DA UNION (historically rife with violence and corruption) is nothing more than a cash cow for the progressives movement.

    It's about Pelosi's "permanent majority," and I'll give you they no longer evem try to hide it.

    You will, in your lifetime, regret at some level what you are claiming to support.

    For the record, my only anti-union stand is public employees unions.
    Stan, if unions are nothing more than a cash cow, why wouldn't you be anti-union for the private sector?

  6. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by mngundog View Post
    Stan, if unions are nothing more than a cash cow, why wouldn't you be anti-union for the private sector?
    It's apples and oranges.
    You know this, so any effort to explain would be a waste of time.

    There are indeed some things private sector unions do well.
    Especially in the trades.

    You wanna' argue for the pristine purity of unions, go ahead, maybe you will convince yourself, but I doubt it!
    Stan b & Elvis

  7. #17
    Senior Member zeus3925's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by road kill View Post
    zeuss, please explain to me how the Democrats give a "tinkers damn" about the working man?
    I remind you, DA UNION (historically rife with violence and corruption) is nothing more than a cash cow for the progressives movement.

    It's about Pelosi's "permanent majority," and I'll give you they no longer evem try to hide it.

    You will, in your lifetime, regret at some level what you are claiming to support.

    For the record, my only anti-union stand is public employees unions.
    Then there's Carl Rove's vision of the permanent majority. Neither Pelosi's or Rove's vision is acceptable in a democracy. A permanent majority by either party is prone to tyranny.

    I am not saying there have not been unions that have fallen under the control of the bad guys. The capers of a Hoffa and a few others have unfairly colored the image of the union movement as a whole. Most unions are militant against the intrusion of corruption and employment of violence. If a union goes violent then the full force of the law will come down upon them and they know it.

    No, Stan, the unions are not there to be a cash cow for progressives. Their principle mission is to collectively bargain for their members. They will support those politicians that have been favorable to their viewpoint. During my involvement my unions have endorsed and supported pro-union republicans and recruited campaign workers for them. Regretably, there are so few in the Republican ranks that merit support. In terms of the overall pool of money entering the political campaigns, union money is not an overwhelming amount. If a member does not like how a union spends its money they can ask for that portion of their dues refunded to them. The union power comes not so much in its financial support, but from its ability to recruit "troops" in support of a campaign.

    The union movement has also advocated for all of American labor besides it own membership:

    --If you like a 40 work week, thank the unions and the Democrats.

    --If you like overtime pay, thank the unions and the Democrats.

    --If you like the concept of paid vacation time, thank the unions and the Democrats.

    --If you benefit from health and safety regulations in the work place, thank the unions and the Democrats.

    --If you support a living wage for all that work and thereby reducing reliance on government support, thank the unions and the Democrats.

    I don't regret any of it.
    Last edited by zeus3925; 04-01-2013 at 08:47 AM.
    Zeus

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  8. #18
    Senior Member road kill's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by zeus3925 View Post
    Then there's Carl Rove's vision of the permanent majority. Neither Pelosi's or Rove's vision is acceptable in a democracy. A permanent majority by either party is prone to tyranny.

    I am not saying there have not been unions that have fallen under the control of the bad guys. The capers of a Hoffa and a few others have unfairly colored the image of the union movement as a whole. Most unions are militant against the intrusion of corruption and employment of violence. If a union goes violent then the full force of the law will come down upon them and they know it.

    No, Stan, the unions are not there to be a cash cow for progressives. Their principle mission is to collectively bargain for their members. They will support those politicians that have been favorable to their viewpoint. During my involvement my unions have endorsed and supported pro-union republicans and recruited campaign workers for them. Regretably, there are so few in the Republican ranks that merit support. In terms of the overall pool of money entering the political campaigns, union money is not an overwhelming amount. If a member does not like how a union spends its money they can ask for that portion of their dues refunded to them. The union power comes not so much in its financial support, but from its ability to recruit "troops" in support of a campaign.

    The union movement has also advocated for all of American labor besides it own membership:

    --If you like a 40 work week, thank the unions and the Democrats.

    --If you like overtime pay, thank the unions and the Democrats.

    --If you like the concept of paid vacation time, thank the unions and the Democrats.

    --If you benefit from health and safety regulations in the work place, thank the unions and the Democrats.

    --If you support a living wage for all that work and thereby reducing reliance on government support, thank the unions and the Democrats.

    I don't regret any of it.
    OK zeuss, DA UNIONS are the epitome of all that is good in America.
    They are honest, forthright and everything they do is legitimate and on the square.
    No violence or threats have ever come from DA UNIONS.
    Everything they do is above board and professional.
    All they are about is caring for the people they represent that can't make it with out them.

    With out DA UNIONS we would be no where.

    Anyone have any ideas on where Hoffa is and HOW he got there?
    Stan b & Elvis

  9. #19
    Senior Member zeus3925's Avatar
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    Stan I think in my statement I said there have been unions that fell into the hands of bad guys, but you are attempting to raise a point that all unions are like that. That is not true for the majority. Unions are a human institution and they suffer from foibles that any human organization is prone. Unions are all about negotiating compensation and working conditions with employers that would prefer to see their employees as the Little Sisters of the Poor.

    But, then this is really not Republican concern about the union's treatment of the poor working stiff. It is really about knocking out a political power source of the opposition. Republicans as a party, never promoted a cause in the interest of the working man.
    Last edited by zeus3925; 04-01-2013 at 09:32 AM.
    Zeus

    I don't want to feed an ugly dog!

  10. #20
    Senior Member road kill's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by zeus3925 View Post
    Stan I think in my statement I said there have been unions that fell into the hands of bad guys, but you are attempting to raise a point that all unions are like that. That is not true for the majority. Unions are a human institution and they suffer from foibles that any human organization is prone. Unions are all about negotiating compensation and working conditions with employers that would prefer to see their employees as the Little Sisters of the Poor.
    No, I am not.
    If you read my post I stated that my issue is with public employee unions.
    That was not acceptasble, it's either all or nothing today.

    I know how some of the trades unions get guys and work connected.

    I am doubtful with all the laws and rules today that the public employee unions save their people from the tyranny and the horrible conditions in their environments.
    Stan b & Elvis

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