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Thread: Michigan starts a new era in that state.

  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by zeus3925 View Post
    Then there's Carl Rove's vision of the permanent majority. Neither Pelosi's or Rove's vision is acceptable in a democracy. A permanent majority by either party is prone to tyranny.

    I am not saying there have not been unions that have fallen under the control of the bad guys. The capers of a Hoffa and a few others have unfairly colored the image of the union movement as a whole. Most unions are militant against the intrusion of corruption and employment of violence. If a union goes violent then the full force of the law will come down upon them and they know it.

    No, Stan, the unions are not there to be a cash cow for progressives. Their principle mission is to collectively bargain for their members. They will support those politicians that have been favorable to their viewpoint. During my involvement my unions have endorsed and supported pro-union republicans and recruited campaign workers for them. Regretably, there are so few in the Republican ranks that merit support. In terms of the overall pool of money entering the political campaigns, union money is not an overwhelming amount. If a member does not like how a union spends its money they can ask for that portion of their dues refunded to them. The union power comes not so much in its financial support, but from its ability to recruit "troops" in support of a campaign.

    The union movement has also advocated for all of American labor besides it own membership:

    --If you like a 40 work week, thank the unions and the Democrats.

    --If you like overtime pay, thank the unions and the Democrats.

    --If you like the concept of paid vacation time, thank the unions and the Democrats.

    --If you benefit from health and safety regulations in the work place, thank the unions and the Democrats.

    --If you support a living wage for all that work and thereby reducing reliance on government support, thank the unions and the Democrats.

    I don't regret any of it.
    First of all I have never understood the term "working man". Aren't carpenters, plumbers, auto workers, lawyers, doctors, farmers, bankers, stock brokers all working men?? I have always thought all that got up and went to work and sold their labor were working men. Those who stayed home and did nothing were the ones that were not the "working man".
    40 hr week, the last I looked you always made more if you worked 50.
    Overtime pay? Generally 90% don't want it and the other 10% will just about fight for it.
    vacation time? Who has ever worked during their vacation that were not paid extra? You don't think that the cost of vacation is not figured when salaries are offered? You think companies would pay the asme if no vacation were offered or is say 50 of 52 weeks were demanded for vacation? You have to be kidding. Just more of union propaganda/
    Health and safety regulations??? Today more claims for workman's compensation and dissability than EVER before. So how has that worked out?
    Living wage?? My first job was delivering newspapers at 10. Did I make enouogh to live on. Certainly not, but I did learn the honor and priviledge of working and my parents saw to that. I only wish kids had the same chance I had when I grew up, not so today.

    Employers don't give workers jobs. They hire them with the expectation of making a profit from the labor they purchase. The biggest problem I see with unions is that they see that that the poorest worker is paid the same as the best. A union guarantees that the best workers make less than the normally would and the worst make far more than they normally would. Unions subsidize the poor workers at the expense of the best. they love to spout your propaganda. I have always paid the best more than the marginal because I always wanted to keep the best. As for the marginal, I could care less if they quit. they were always easy to replace. Not true of the best.

  2. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by caryalsobrook View Post
    First of all I have never understood the term "working man". Aren't carpenters, plumbers, auto workers, lawyers, doctors, farmers, bankers, stock brokers all working men?? I have always thought all that got up and went to work and sold their labor were working men. Those who stayed home and did nothing were the ones that were not the "working man".
    40 hr week, the last I looked you always made more if you worked 50.
    Overtime pay? Generally 90% don't want it and the other 10% will just about fight for it.
    vacation time? Who has ever worked during their vacation that were not paid extra? You don't think that the cost of vacation is not figured when salaries are offered? You think companies would pay the asme if no vacation were offered or is say 50 of 52 weeks were demanded for vacation? You have to be kidding. Just more of union propaganda/
    Health and safety regulations??? Today more claims for workman's compensation and dissability than EVER before. So how has that worked out?
    Living wage?? My first job was delivering newspapers at 10. Did I make enouogh to live on. Certainly not, but I did learn the honor and priviledge of working and my parents saw to that. I only wish kids had the same chance I had when I grew up, not so today.

    Employers don't give workers jobs. They hire them with the expectation of making a profit from the labor they purchase. The biggest problem I see with unions is that they see that that the poorest worker is paid the same as the best. A union guarantees that the best workers make less than the normally would and the worst make far more than they normally would. Unions subsidize the poor workers at the expense of the best. they love to spout your propaganda. I have always paid the best more than the marginal because I always wanted to keep the best. As for the marginal, I could care less if they quit. they were always easy to replace. Not true of the best.
    Having worked at two large corporations with 95% of our shops being nonunion, I don't consider our use of a salary schedule as "union propaganda", its a pretty common practice with both upsides and downsides.

  3. #23
    Senior Member zeus3925's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by caryalsobrook View Post
    First of all I have never understood the term "working man". Aren't carpenters, plumbers, auto workers, lawyers, doctors, farmers, bankers, stock brokers all working men?? I have always thought all that got up and went to work and sold their labor were working men. Those who stayed home and did nothing were the ones that were not the "working man".
    40 hr week, the last I looked you always made more if you worked 50.
    Overtime pay? Generally 90% don't want it and the other 10% will just about fight for it.
    vacation time? Who has ever worked during their vacation that were not paid extra? You don't think that the cost of vacation is not figured when salaries are offered? You think companies would pay the asme if no vacation were offered or is say 50 of 52 weeks were demanded for vacation? You have to be kidding. Just more of union propaganda/
    Health and safety regulations??? Today more claims for workman's compensation and dissability than EVER before. So how has that worked out?
    Living wage?? My first job was delivering newspapers at 10. Did I make enouogh to live on. Certainly not, but I did learn the honor and priviledge of working and my parents saw to that. I only wish kids had the same chance I had when I grew up, not so today.

    Employers don't give workers jobs. They hire them with the expectation of making a profit from the labor they purchase. The biggest problem I see with unions is that they see that that the poorest worker is paid the same as the best. A union guarantees that the best workers make less than the normally would and the worst make far more than they normally would. Unions subsidize the poor workers at the expense of the best. they love to spout your propaganda. I have always paid the best more than the marginal because I always wanted to keep the best. As for the marginal, I could care less if they quit. they were always easy to replace. Not true of the best.
    Yep, you know it all, Cary. Next you'll try to tell me my avatar is really a white dog.
    Zeus

    I don't want to feed an ugly dog!

  4. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by zeus3925 View Post
    Yep, you know it all, Cary. Next you'll try to tell me my avatar is really a white dog.
    And while you are at it, Cary, please ask what branch of military he earned the name "Sarge" from???...and the dates he served.


    UB
    When the one you love becomes a memory, that memory becomes a treasure.

  5. #25
    Senior Member zeus3925's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Uncle Bill View Post
    And while you are at it, Cary, please ask what branch of military he earned the name "Sarge" from???...and the dates he served.


    UB
    It was all explained to you when I first joined and you are still not my uncle.
    Zeus

    I don't want to feed an ugly dog!

  6. #26
    Senior Member Uncle Bill's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by zeus3925 View Post
    It was all explained to you when I first joined and you are still not my uncle.

    Humor me again, since I don't recall you posting that info. But hey!!! If it is indeed a source of pride, why not revel in displaying it again.

    BTW, if you were to actually read that post, you might come to the realization it wasn't addressed to you. But being the thin-skinned buttinski that so many of you loonie lovers are, by all means, fill us in on all your military accomplishments, Sarge.

    Furthermore, where did you get the impression I would ever stoop to being a relative of yours? Nice try, but no banana for you.

    Bill Spitzer...AKA, Uncle Bill to many blood relative nieces and nephews, and thousands of listeners to Black Hills radio in the 60's, 70's and 80's...and pretty well recognized by that alias throughout region 13 of HRC, and mebbe even at the national level. Do you have any recognition, Sarge?
    When the one you love becomes a memory, that memory becomes a treasure.

  7. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Uncle Bill View Post
    Humor me again, since I don't recall you posting that info. But hey!!! If it is indeed a source of pride, why not revel in displaying it again.

    BTW, if you were to actually read that post, you might come to the realization it wasn't addressed to you. But being the thin-skinned buttinski that so many of you loonie lovers are, by all means, fill us in on all your military accomplishments, Sarge.

    Furthermore, where did you get the impression I would ever stoop to being a relative of yours? Nice try, but no banana for you.

    Bill Spitzer...AKA, Uncle Bill to many blood relative nieces and nephews, and thousands of listeners to Black Hills radio in the 60's, 70's and 80's...and pretty well recognized by that alias throughout region 13 of HRC, and mebbe even at the national level. Do you have any recognition, Sarge?
    Zeus, this just keeps getting better not only do you get to discuss politics with a nationally renowned radio personality , but also the smartest kid in SD. , as for me I'm a French model..Bonjour.

  8. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by mngundog View Post
    Zeus, this just keeps getting better not only do you get to discuss politics with a nationally renowned radio personality , but also the smartest kid in SD. , as for me I'm a French model..Bonjour.
    My what fun...from the sublime to the ludicrous. Another Minnesooota loonie playing the sycophantic roll, posting to a dudes dog. (I've often wondered about Sarge's tag line, and if his dog, Zeus, has ever objected to being fed by an ugly human?)

    But in your toady world, I have no doubt you are indeed a French model. I think I've heard where you were voted by the 'Men of S.W. Minnesoooota' as being the best French Liquor in that part of the state...caveat emptor.

    UB...and no, I don't wish to be your uncle either...but guess what??? With all your relatives entering SSM, you won't have to worry about ever having any uncles. The bennies just keep on coming, eh?
    When the one you love becomes a memory, that memory becomes a treasure.

  9. #29
    Senior Member HPL's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mngundog View Post
    Here the employees have the ability to vote a Union in or out by a majority vote, I would not call that coercion but something else.
    What, specifically would you call it if, for instance, a majority of your neighbors voted that dogs over 10lbs were not allowed in your neighborhood and you either had to get rid of your retrievers or sell your house? Is that "democracy at work" or is that coercion? If coercion, how is that any different from the majority of your fellow workers saying "join the union, pay union dues, or lose your job"?
    Any doctrine that weakens personal responsibility for judgment and for action helps create the attitudes that welcome and support the totalitarian state.
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  10. #30
    Senior Member zeus3925's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mngundog View Post
    Zeus, this just keeps getting better not only do you get to discuss politics with a nationally renowned radio personality , but also the smartest kid in SD. , as for me I'm a French model..Bonjour.
    Bill just loves to throw red herrings and pet names when he can't counter an argument-- in this case the anti-union attack is just a ploy to cut off a resource of the opposition. We don't have to worry much as he has frequently said: He wouldn't get caught dead in MinnesooOOOTA. That's perfectly fine with me.
    Zeus

    I don't want to feed an ugly dog!

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