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Thread: Michigan starts a new era in that state.

  1. #31
    Senior Member road kill's Avatar
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    Hey zeuss,
    Back to the topic, can you explain the dwindling membership in unions?

    Without the ability to force membership, workers chose not to join.

    Why is that?
    Stan b & Elvis

  2. #32
    Senior Member zeus3925's Avatar
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    Automation has a lot to do with it. Machines are replacing humans. The face of American industry is also changing. With collars getting whiter, many occupations are rising up that traditionally have not been unionized. Management styles are changing.

    If you have an employer that actively seeks to keep good workers with pay and benefits that will keep them--you don't need a union. If your employer treats his workers with dignity and respect --you don't need a union. Many of the new school employers and supervisors are able to establish good employee relations through good leadership. I worked at a aerial survey company that was non union. We got a new manager in from Medtronics. The pay was abysmal but the employees would follow that guy through the depth of hell. He treated everyone like were an integral part of the company. Nobody was going to dream of organizing that company. While I loved working there, I doubled my salary by moving elsewhere. The management the new place needed to have a union on its tail.
    Last edited by zeus3925; 04-02-2013 at 03:11 PM.
    Zeus

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  3. #33
    Senior Member zeus3925's Avatar
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    RK: sent ya a PM re the RTF event
    Zeus

    I don't want to feed an ugly dog!

  4. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by HPL View Post
    What, specifically would you call it if, for instance, a majority of your neighbors voted that dogs over 10lbs were not allowed in your neighborhood and you either had to get rid of your retrievers or sell your house? Is that "democracy at work" or is that coercion? If coercion, how is that any different from the majority of your fellow workers saying "join the union, pay union dues, or lose your job"?
    That sounds a lot like a HOA, I believe they would consider themselves a democracy.

  5. #35
    Senior Member zeus3925's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HPL View Post
    What, specifically would you call it if, for instance, a majority of your neighbors voted that dogs over 10lbs were not allowed in your neighborhood and you either had to get rid of your retrievers or sell your house? Is that "democracy at work" or is that coercion? If coercion, how is that any different from the majority of your fellow workers saying "join the union, pay union dues, or lose your job"?
    John C. Calhoun would have loved your logic!
    Zeus

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  6. #36
    Senior Member HPL's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by zeus3925 View Post
    John C. Calhoun would have loved your logic!
    Interesting reply, but you didn't answer my question. Just explain the difference to me, or explain how neither is coercion, and I'll listen.
    Last edited by HPL; 04-02-2013 at 12:26 PM.
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  7. #37
    Senior Member zeus3925's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HPL View Post
    Interesting reply, but you didn't answer my question. Just explain the difference to me, or explain how neither is coercion, and I'll listen.
    Both are democratically derived results until the courts negate the implementation or the law is changed.
    Last edited by zeus3925; 04-02-2013 at 08:51 PM.
    Zeus

    I don't want to feed an ugly dog!

  8. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by zeus3925 View Post
    Bill just loves to throw red herrings and pet names when he can't counter an argument-- in this case the anti-union attack is just a ploy to cut off a resource of the opposition. We don't have to worry much as he has frequently said: He wouldn't get caught dead in MinnesooOOOTA. That's perfectly fine with me.
    I was rather amazed that he was able to string a few sentences together without quoting Beck or Limbaugh.

  9. #39
    Senior Member coachmo's Avatar
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    The intellect from the left is so refreshing!!!! Man I just wish I could be an elitist like ya'll!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

  10. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by zeus3925 View Post
    Yep, you know it all, Cary. Next you'll try to tell me my avatar is really a white dog.
    I don't think anybody will jucge me by your answer but they might judge you.

    What I know is a combination of my education both formal and informal. My formal education is what it is. As to the informal, that came primarily from my father was "spend less that you make." "It is not how much you make but how much you save." "Give better than was bargained for and your rewards will be far greater than you expected." I have always felt that he put it simply but spoke volumes. While I have paid my share of "stupid tax", I have never the less tried to follow his guidance. Today I have found it to have served me well. With the exception of college and a year when I was extremely sick, I have always spent less than I made. That has been true even for the 5 years that I have been retired. I have just spent less. Finantially I do not consider myself rich but I am not poor either. I am however richer more than I could have imagined when my father taught me the simple principle. "Give better than was bargained for and your rewards will be far greater than you expected. I did not realize what he truly meant at the time but today I now know that that principle has made me richer than I could have imagined.

    Your statement about your avatar reminded me of a story I once heard. Two people were looking at a rainbow. The first said "look at the rainbow in the sky." The second said, looking at its reflection on the water, said "look at it on the water". "Which one is upside down. I trust you can not only picture it but understand its meaning.

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