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Thread: 49 Days????

  1. #11
    Senior Member Howard N's Avatar
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    It is old science, but science just the same. Not some kook espousing their opinions.
    Naaaa, I prefer to think it was an armchair expert expressing his opinions.

    Wolters basher regards,

    Howard Niemi

    You really gotta be careful about how high a pedestal you put your method, your accomplishments, your dog on. There's usually someone who's done more, somewhere. And they may have used a different method than you did! Chris Atkinson 2013

    get your dog out and TRAIN! caryalsobrook 2013

  2. #12
    Senior Member Rnd's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Howard N View Post
    Naaaa, I prefer to think it was an armchair expert expressing his opinions.

    Wolters basher regards,

    Howard,

    No doubt Richard was a better writer than he was a dog trainer..
    May you pin all the marks and line the blinds!!

    Avatar courtesy of RTF"s TZAPPIA

  3. #13
    Senior Member Erin Lynes's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rnd View Post
    Erin,

    Great post... That's the first post on the 49 day question (that I've seen) that didn't slam R. Wolters and actually gave credit where it belonged. It is old science, but science just the same. Not some kook espousing their opinions. Not suggesting that Richard was a kook but some paint him that way..

    I think todays breeders have come a long way from those early days of having a litter and letting "fend for themselves." Todays pups are well socialised, handled and raised in the home/house by breeders. ....

    Randy
    I am not sure if Wolters was the first to misinterpret/market the 49 day theory but I think his was the most widely read interpretation of that part of the Scott/Fuller study. There is so much more to it than that though and certainly worth the read. As I was not around in those days <grin> perhaps it was not a misinterpretation- did real breeders really raise their puppies in a vaccuum with no social contact like the scientists did?

    Certainly puppies back then did not get the stimulation that we try to give them nowadays, along with the ENS and all that early learning, living in the house, and so on, and I suspect at one point it would have been very beneficial to get a puppy as early as possible to ensure that it was getting handled, individual attention and proper care. But for me and my clients, it is pretty rare that a puppy buyer has as much time to spend with one puppy as I do with a whole litter and that, coupled with the social benefits of keeping the litter together for a last week of biting each other and learning to inhibit their bites, is what makes me a '56 days or beyond' proponent.

    When I am the buyer, even older is better! Maybe I am just over the cute puppy novelty, but I really do appreciate how much easier it gets for me to raise a puppy after a good breeder has already put in all the time doing the tough stuff...
    Erin Lynes
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  4. #14
    Senior Member Julie R.'s Avatar
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    Like Howard, I've had a few pups that were ready to leave at 7 wks. but now I usually wait til 8 wks. Since I started doing that, I've gotten very positive reports on them not crying as much the first night and settling in much better. I never believed that "magic day 49" thing anyway as puppies can really vary from litter to litter and even within a litter.
    Julie R., Hope Springs Farm
    Chesapeake Bay Retrievers since 1981

  5. #15
    Senior Member windycanyon's Avatar
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    If I were to place my pups at 49 days, they'd not see the ACVO for CERF exams, would not have had a final conformation evaluation, would not have seen the live pigeons they do, and would not been "pecked" on nearly as much as if they stayed that last week and I'd not be nearly as confident in my vet well check either (hearts and those questionable testes at times). I wonder if I'd match up energy/temperaments as well too. OTOH, I'd save a lot of money in food (probably at least 40-44#) and maybe would not get the gray hairs over who is eating WHAT after they break out of of the expen, etc......

    In the end, more pup owners have been thanking me for sending a more prepared pup to them. Housebreaking, crating, bird intro, temperament matching, etc. I'll stick to 8 wks here.

  6. #16
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    One of the first studies on early and delayed socialization was done by Clarence Pfaffenberger and J Scott. The work was first published in 1959 in a journal and was titled "The relationship between delayed socialization and trainability in guide dogs". This was later expanded into a book titled "The new knowledge of dog behavior" published in 1963. His research was based upon the Guide Dogs for the Blind in California and Bar Harbor, Maine. Scott (same Scott) and Fuller published subsequently. Whereas Pfaffenberger looks at socialization, this book includes the genetic basis of canine behavior.

    The 49th day is a misreading of these two works. These studies say a dog needs to have human interaction starting in the 7th week and no later than the 12th week. The 49th day theory is based on the dog being socialized only by its owner. The theory gives no credence to the socialization done by the breeder.
    Last edited by Eric Johnson; 03-31-2013 at 10:57 PM.
    Eric

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  7. #17
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    Would think 8 weeks over 7 weeks would allow for better immune response to vaccinations administered at 6 weeks as well. Just a different take on it

  8. #18
    Senior Member firehouselabs's Avatar
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    Check with your state laws as well. Some states require pups to be 8 wks old. I'm one of those that follows the rules even if the teacher/boss/police aren't watching, so don't even ask! Plus, they get a lot of socialization, birds, water, and adventure walks during that week, since it is actually the funnest one for me.
    Raina Anderson WWW.FIREHOUSELABS.COM

    According to this BMI chart, I am too short !!!


  9. #19
    Senior Member fishin444's Avatar
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    I agree with pretty much all that's been posted on the subject. As a California breeder it's against the law to release a pup under 8 weeks old without written permission from a vet. I have trained some pretty good retrievers using Wolters methods, but like most have posted I've moved on to other programs.

  10. #20
    Senior Member gdgnyc's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Howard N View Post
    Naaaa, I prefer to think it was an armchair expert expressing his opinions.

    Wolters basher regards,

    You do have his book, don't you?
    "I love the rod and gun and where they take me."

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