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Thread: Cold Honor

  1. #11
    Senior Member 2tall's Avatar
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    So the working dog sees the mark twice. Does this help or hinder most dogs on getting the mark? Seems like it would almost make the mark too easy. When I worked on this, it seemed very easy because my dog was not as ooc before running. He sat quietly and watched the mark. Walking back to the holding blind and coming out to run a blind kept him much saner. So yes, I liked it as a training exercise, but still a little unsure how it plays out in an actual trial.
    Carol,
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  2. #12
    Senior Member Ted Shih's Avatar
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    They call it a "cold" honor, because the dog honors before retrieving any mark - unlike what typically happens. That is, pick up the marks, then honor. Therefore, it is called a "cold" honor.

    It is distinguished from the poison bird blind in that the bird is not left on the ground, but another dog retrieves the bird instead. Some dogs will break seeing another dog get the mark. Some dogs will suck hard to the mark when running the blind.

    A "cold" honor is something that a judge might consider when running on grounds that are used for training and there are a limited number of tough All Age Water Blinds - or when the grounds simply lack tough blinds. A cold honor can blow some dogs' minds and it can disrupt dogs that have run training blinds on the grounds. It also - as Ed mentioned - gives you another mark to judge.

    It is simply another tool in the tool box for judges.
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  3. #13
    Senior Member Ted Shih's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Criquetpas View Post
    I have run them maybe a dozen or so times in all-age trials. Trained on them. As I judge have never set one up. It can be time consuming especially in a amateur all age waiting for open dogs and having to use bye dogs to keep it going. It is a mark so has to be judged as such, sometimes singles in all-age dogs can be very challenging to say the least. Murphy's law and Murphy was an optimist!

    As Earl and Ed both mention, there are a lot of moving parts in a cold honor - which increase the likelihood of error and burn time.
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  4. #14
    Senior Member EdA's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 2tall View Post
    So the working dog sees the mark twice. Does this help or hinder most dogs on getting the mark? Seems like it would almost make the mark too easy. When I worked on this, it seemed very easy because my dog was not as ooc before running. He sat quietly and watched the mark. Walking back to the holding blind and coming out to run a blind kept him much saner. So yes, I liked it as a training exercise, but still a little unsure how it plays out in an actual trial.
    To answer several questions Carol, yes I have done them, recently in an Open to great effect when we lost as many dogs on the mark as we did on the blind. Seeing the mark twice does not seem helpful as they had to do a difficult water blind between looks. Some dogs get weird about the mark as they must view it as a trap. As Ted stated a useful tool when circumstances dictate it. In the specific instance this spring we had 80 dogs, a 180 degree wind shift over night, and it was imperative that we finish the first series on Friday, honoring would have taken enough time to prevent that from happening and made the test very different for dogs who ran the next day. The next marking test is the last and with several pros it can be an issue to honor without running bye dogs so the obvious solution for us was a cold honor on the water blind.

  5. #15
    Senior Member Wayne Nutt's Avatar
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    I have only seen this once in an akc master ht. It was an Evan described. It scared the crap out of me and we had never trained for a cold honor. But we made it through that series.
    Wayne Nutt
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  6. #16
    Senior Member Evan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Criquetpas View Post
    That could be challenging. The ones I ran were all land blinds, one was two under the arc on land. Was it a water mark Evan? Have run a live flyer with a blind when club was short handed in the first series, no honor. Lots of things I wouldn't train on as one may only see it once in a blue moon. Not worth the trouble of possible corrections. What are your thoughts on strange tests and training for them?
    Earl,

    The blind was rat trapped in a large beaver pond. Lots of logs and trees. Off the upper end was a 60-70 yard long channel where water fed from the upper pond. we ran off the top of the dam of the upper pond. The gunners stood on the right bank of the mouth of the channel and threw the mark across to the left bank.

    The previous dog that had already run the blind now would get that mark while the new dog "cold honored" it. Then he ran the blind through that arc, which was the only way to get in. Many a champion was picked up having never gotten wet!

    Evan
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  7. #17
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    Evan very substantial blind. Don't see floaters as much, also bird thrown across channel, as a cold honor land would be very temping.
    Earl Dillow

  8. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by EdA View Post
    In most instances handling on a single would be unacceptable.
    Most weekends handling on a mark in a triple or a quad would be unacccepatble despite the rule book stating that a quick handle is better than a hunt. Having said that I did get some color the other day with a handle on bird in the last series, but if that handle had been in an earlier series I wouldnt have been there in the last to get the opportunity.

    Personally love the opportunity to get to add another mark into the book to score, and it can be much more effective if you have to subsequently pick it up. If you NO them off of it too hard the dog may not want to go back in there and pick it up when asked to, and there can be as much memory drain after a long water blind as in a regular triple or a quad.


    Mark



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  9. #19
    Senior Member Gun_Dog2002's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ted Shih View Post

    As Earl and Ed both mention, there are a lot of moving parts in a cold honor - which increase the likelihood of error and burn time.
    Amen...

    /Paul
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  10. #20
    Senior Member Gun_Dog2002's Avatar
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    Just ran the Greater Pacific Hunt test a couple weeks back. Second series was a cold honor. Bring down out of holding blind, place on honor position, watch marks go down, take him back into the holding blind, when dog retrieving marks is done, you move to that position, next dog brought up. Pure steadiness test. The marks where inconsquential, the go bird was plopped in water 15-20 yards in front of the dogs. As Ted mentioned the mechanics and potential for time waste is great. If either dog breaks, have to get a pickup dog. have to have a by dog on both ends. Sit means Sit

    /Paul
    Paul Cantrell
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