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Thread: Hand Down on Marks & Blinds

  1. #1
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    Default Hand Down on Marks & Blinds

    Somewhere in TRT, Lardy says that putting your hand down is a confirmation to the dog, you aren't giving him the line with your hand. Is this what you do? Is it different between marks and blinds?

    How do you cue a dog he's running a mark vs a blind?

    How precise is your initial line to the blind? It would seem to be helpful to adjust the dog's direction a few degrees, the hand would seem to be a less disruptive tool for fine tuning than moving the dog with shoulders and legs.
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  2. #2

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    The hand can be used for two objectives: 1) Confirm to the dog that he/she is looking in the correct direction 2) when done consistantly on the first retrieve or blind, it helps to train the dog that they will not be sent until the hand is down and this helps prevent breaking. I always say 'dead bird' prior to a blind and the dog cues in to that after some time and knows right away that he is going for a blind rather than a mark. The slight change in angle of a hand really wouldn't cause the dog to shift a few degrees. Your leg movement is more helpful. I personally also gently say 'that's it' as the dog has settled in on the correct direction slightly prior to lowering my hand and then sending.
    Last edited by cubdriver; 04-06-2013 at 04:13 PM. Reason: changed one word

  3. #3
    Senior Member Wayne Nutt's Avatar
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    I use a cue of "mark" for marks and "dead bird" for blinds. I say "good" when the dog is looking in the correct direction on blinds. The correction for looking the wrong way is made with the feet and hand tapping the leg, etc. It is important that the dog learn what your body movements mean. Lardy goes into this in detail in his Vol 1 RJ articles.

    Moving the hand is not the correct procedure. Getting a good initial line is learned through wagon wheel, pattern blinds and pattern blinds with diversions. But be patient as a dog just starting out on cold blinds probably won't take a good initial line. The most important thing at first, IMHO, is go, stop and come. But good initial lines will come with time and practice.

    I hope this helps.
    Last edited by Wayne Nutt; 04-06-2013 at 04:12 PM.
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    Senior Member John Lash's Avatar
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    For a blind keep your hand close to but behind the dog's head. When he's looking where you want quickly put your hand out and send him. If your dog is in early blind training don't mess around trying to get him lined up. As he progresses and is confident you can adjust him more.

    You can adjust him with "here and heel." Stepping up a little to push him away from you or stepping back a little to pull him toward you.
    Last edited by John Lash; 04-06-2013 at 07:20 PM.
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    Senior Member copterdoc's Avatar
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    Dogs are incapable of "aiming".
    Even if they had arms, hands, and fingers, they would not be able to aim a rifle.
    Rather, they react and respond to our gestures, and movements.

    Therefore, it is impossible to give a dog a "line" with your hand. Even though lots of people try.

    For "big" movements, I use my left leg. For minute movements, I use my right leg.
    At first, I move the dog's body with my left, and it's head with my right. As the dog becomes more comfortable, and proficient, I can move only his head with my left leg, and his eyes with my right leg.

    When he is looking where I want, I say "good". When he looks away, I say "no".
    When he stays locked in, where I want him to look, I drop the hand, and say "BACK".
    Last edited by copterdoc; 04-08-2013 at 08:29 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by copterdoc View Post
    Dogs are incapable of "aiming".
    Even if they had arms, hands, and fingers, they would not be able to aim a rifle.
    Rather, they react and respond to our gestures, and movements.
    Elaborate, please. What do you mean by aiming.
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    Senior Member copterdoc's Avatar
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    The "brain power" that it takes to sight a rifle.
    It's a lot of math, and dogs just simply can't do the math.

    They respond to US, and our MOVEMENTS.
    But, they can't aim a gun, or sink an 8 ball in the corner pocket. Their brains can't process the data and calculate the angles.
    They don't "see" lines.

    They see a point, in a picture. We can direct their attention to that point. But, we can't aim them down a line.

  8. #8
    Senior Member Mary Lynn Metras's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by copterdoc View Post
    Dogs are incapable of "aiming".
    Even if they had arms, hands, and fingers, they would not be able to aim a rifle.
    Rather, they react and respond to our gestures, and movements.

    Therefore, it is impossible to give a dog a "line" with your hand. Even though lots of people try.

    For "big" movements, I use my left leg. For minute movements, I use my right leg.
    At first, I move the dog's body with my left, and it's head with my right. As the dog becomes more comfortable, and proficient, I can move only his head with my right leg, and his eyes with my right leg.

    When he is looking where I want, I say "good". When he looks away, I say "no".
    When he stays locked in, where I want him to look, I drop the hand, and say "BACK".
    Definitely a dog can't aim a rifle and he can't aim but I think you can tweak him a little with your hand. I know you are not supposed to but.. a good dog is smarter than you think !!! And I agree about when he looks where you want him to go cue him "good" "yes" "that is it" but be consistent with your choice of words.
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  9. #9
    Senior Member copterdoc's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mary Lynn Metras View Post
    Definitely a dog can't aim a rifle and he can't aim but I think you can tweak him a little with your hand.
    Quit trying to.

    It really doesn't work.

  10. #10
    Senior Member copterdoc's Avatar
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    Some people shake a Polaroid, tap the top of a soda can, and/or wave their hand back and forth in front of their dog's nose.

    They are all equally pointless, and superstitious behaviors.

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