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Thread: Hand Down on Marks & Blinds

  1. #21
    Senior Member copterdoc's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JS View Post
    .....how is it I hear some folks can teach their dog to follow a gun barrel but it's not possible to influence their line with your hand???
    Ever played air guitar?

    Try playing "air gun" with those dogs that mark off a gun barrel.

    They respond to us, our movements, and our gestures. The gun doesn't need to be there.

  2. #22
    Senior Member Mike Tome's Avatar
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    So let me get this straight... some of you think that putting a hand down over a dog's head is going to keep them from breaking?????? Just curious.....
    Mike Tome
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  3. #23
    Senior Member copterdoc's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mike Tome View Post
    So let me get this straight... some of you think that putting a hand down over a dog's head is going to keep them from breaking?????? Just curious.....
    I think that it's more of a NOT putting your hand down, might keep them from breaking.

  4. #24
    Senior Member Labs's Avatar
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    So...for those that use your hand on the send for marks....what do you do for a dog that is on a remote sit? Do you then walk over to the dog and send with your hand?

  5. #25
    Senior Member Ted Shih's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mike Tome View Post
    So let me get this straight... some of you think that putting a hand down over a dog's head is going to keep them from breaking?????? Just curious.....

    Yes. They are conditioned to understand that they cannot go - after the last bird is shot (and excitement the highest) - until the hand goes down and their name is said
    I have seen a handler or two who do not follow this practice (which is the norm in FT), and their dogs seemed more prone to breaking
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  6. #26
    Senior Member John Robinson's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mike Tome View Post
    So let me get this straight... some of you think that putting a hand down over a dog's head is going to keep them from breaking?????? Just curious.....
    Absolutely. Obviously all dogs are different, some are wild indians prone to break no matter what, while others are steady Eddies that will never break, but for those many dogs in the middle, training routines matter. I have never sent my dog on a go-bird without putting my hand down. I believe that after thousands of marks, all run the same way with the same cadence, dogs do learn. I will admit that my eager beavers have taken off a few time with me only putting my hand down, and they even have broken a time or two, so it's not perfect, but I believe that for the most part it works.

    I only use a no-hand send on "Easy" memory birds, I also use a very soft voice on those check downs.

    John
    Last edited by John Robinson; 04-08-2013 at 05:12 PM.

  7. #27
    Senior Member John Robinson's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Labs View Post
    So...for those that use your hand on the send for marks....what do you do for a dog that is on a remote sit? Do you then walk over to the dog and send with your hand?
    I haven't ever had a remote sit on marks, have had it on blinds, typically in a front face position 10-20 yards in front of me. Occasionally I have had my dog creep out in front of me, after my number is called I will reheel, sit and send with hand down, or if it's just a foot or so over the line I will lean forward, put my hand down and send.

    John

  8. #28
    Senior Member BonMallari's Avatar
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    its funny that I just had this conversation with Lanse at 6:30 this morning when we had our weekly phone call to BS about the past weekend's events (PRTA in Ga)....one of the marks in the 4th series of the Am was a short check down variety, here is Lanse's play by play description almost verbatim
    Lanse : "as Rosa came back with the bird I could hear Rorem in my ear saying Lanse, this is a no hands soft send...so I kept the bird in her mouth and watched her breathing before taking the bird from her mouth, then I sweated her for just a bit until her breathing became less heavy,I leaned over and gave her a soft send no hands whisper Rosa....she nailed it..the Lanse of old would have put his hand down and given a booming back and probably sent her into Charlie Hays' bedroom (trial was held at his property) "
    there is you handling lesson for the day thanks to David Rorem via Lanse...it just depends on the situation
    Last edited by BonMallari; 04-08-2013 at 04:52 PM.
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  9. #29
    Senior Member Mike Tome's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by John Robinson View Post
    Absolutely. Obviously all dogs are different, some are wile indians prone to break no matter what, while others are steady Eddies that will never break, but for those many dogs in the middle, training routnes matter. I have never sent my dog on a go-bird without putting my hand down. I believe that after thousands of marks, all run the same way with the same cadence, dogs do learn. I will admit that my eager beavers have taken off a few time with me only putting my hand down, and they even have broken a time or two, so it's not perfect, but I believe that for the most part it works.

    I only use a no-hand send on "Easy" birds, I also use a very soft voice on those check downs.
    Yes.... OK... but I can say that I NEVER put my hand down and only release my eager beaver by his name. I have never sent my dog on a go-bird without saying his name. I believe that after thousands of marks, all run the same way with the same cadence, dogs do learn. He has taken off a few times without me saying his name, so its not perfect...... well... you get the picture....

    I know that with lots of repetition, hopefully dogs learn that they cannot go without being released. I'm just not convinced that it's the hand over their head that keeps them steady, any more than not hearing their name as the cue they can go. But, that's just me and my problem!!!!
    Mike Tome
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  10. #30
    Senior Member John Robinson's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mike Tome View Post
    Yes.... OK... but I can say that I NEVER put my hand down and only release my eager beaver by his name. I have never sent my dog on a go-bird without saying his name. I believe that after thousands of marks, all run the same way with the same cadence, dogs do learn. He has taken off a few times without me saying his name, so its not perfect...... well... you get the picture....

    I know that with lots of repetition, hopefully dogs learn that they cannot go without being released. I'm just not convinced that it's the hand over their head that keeps them steady, any more than not hearing their name as the cue they can go. But, that's just me and my problem!!!!
    Like almost everything else about dog training, until someone developes a machine that can read a dog's mind and translate it into english, we don't know for sure what is going on in there. That said I tend to rely on standard field trial dog training methods, the good coaches I have had through the years, and buy into their explanations of why they do it the way they do. Not saying other methods don't work, I just know this has worked well for me and I see no reason to buck the tide.

    John

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