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Thread: What do you look for in a pup and in what order

  1. #11
    Senior Member bjoiner's Avatar
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    I look for it to eat in one end and poop out the other.
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  2. #12
    Senior Member DarrinGreene's Avatar
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    Seller with the ability to back up their health guarantee. If they only breed once every three years a replacement pup isn't likely an option in the event of a genetic health issue. Just have to reword to get your money back, and then look to make sure they might actually have that money two years down the line.
    Darrin Greene

  3. #13
    Senior Member Peter G Lippert's Avatar
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    Great thread and a very comprehensive list. The only thing is I would say health trumps all. All of those characteristics are almost meaningless if your pup is unhealthy or in and out of the vet a lot.

  4. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by JusticeDog View Post
    He's an HRC guy Marvin. He doesn't want to put his name out there, but I do know who he is, and who he trains with since he's in my area. Not what you and I would consider "pelts".... He just talks. He has obviously read Lardy's material, But there are holes in his "talking" - I just read his stuff for amusement, and sit back and hope some newbie doesn't think he's right.
    Thank you Susan . I started in this sport long before most here were born, my early mentor was a guy named Bob Sparks, who was a self taught amateur trainer. The only guy we had to talk to was Guy Burnett. We had the discussion of "Bottom" & I thought his presentation of same to make a lot of sense. Bob felt that "bottom" was a refined attribute. Bob was also a very good college athlete, as many who play with dogs seem to be, so there is an understanding of what it takes to get where one needs to go & how it's nurtured. He owned Butte's Blue Moon, trained him from scratch after getting him @ 6 months untrained. Moon was the greatest marking dog I have ever seen though you would not have known it when he was 13 months old . He was sold to Bing Grunwald @ 28 months with 30 derby points in 9 trials, QAA, because Bob had leukemia & no longer had the energy to deal with more than 1 dog. When I ran into Bon's brother @ Tottens' trial the 1st words out of his mouth were "Butte's Blue Moon" when I intro'd myself . Clint knew John Luther well.

    I really dislike the finality of some folks expressing an opinion with little training experience or few pelts, if any, to back themselves & the possibility some folks might take that poorly thought out message as gospel. Few people here have the training background to believe their way is correct because if they did they would understand that there are always exceptions to the generally thought rule of thumb. Even the pro I trained with for years did not feel he knew it all, though I know he knew an awful lot & has the pelts to prove that .

    I could go through a ton of those exceptions - but I'll pass a few on: 1) why is it some folks can pick a pup 1st from a litter, train with folks who got a later pick, but always end up with a failure while others go on to great success? 2) why do some folks seem to have dogs that never pass OFA while dogs from the same litter all pass? 3) how does someone pick a pup from a repeat breeding where the previous breeding probably had close to a quarter of a mil spent on training & campaigning with one derby lister, yet manages to end up with a dog that will be in the HOF & rightfully so?
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  5. #15
    Senior Member copterdoc's Avatar
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    Okay then.

    I think that I want a dog with natural marking ability, and bottom.
    Because, I don't believe that either of those things can be trained into a dog. By anybody.
    Also, I do not believe that those qualities can be witnessed in a puppy.

    That's what I personally believe. But, I could most definitely be wrong.

  6. #16
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    Black hair
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  7. #17
    Senior Member John Lash's Avatar
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    It's the old "breed the best to the best and hope for the best."

    If wishes and buts were candy and nuts we'd all have a Merry Christmas.
    Last edited by John Lash; 04-07-2013 at 08:28 PM.
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  8. #18
    Administrator Chris Atkinson's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marvin S View Post
    Thank you Susan . I started in this sport long before most here were born, my early mentor was a guy named Bob Sparks, who was a self taught amateur trainer. The only guy we had to talk to was Guy Burnett. We had the discussion of "Bottom" & I thought his presentation of same to make a lot of sense. Bob felt that "bottom" was a refined attribute. Bob was also a very good college athlete, as many who play with dogs seem to be, so there is an understanding of what it takes to get where one needs to go & how it's nurtured. He owned Butte's Blue Moon, trained him from scratch after getting him @ 6 months untrained. Moon was the greatest marking dog I have ever seen though you would not have known it when he was 13 months old . He was sold to Bing Grunwald @ 28 months with 30 derby points in 9 trials, QAA, because Bob had leukemia & no longer had the energy to deal with more than 1 dog. When I ran into Bon's brother @ Tottens' trial the 1st words out of his mouth were "Butte's Blue Moon" when I intro'd myself . Clint knew John Luther well.

    I really dislike the finality of some folks expressing an opinion with little training experience or few pelts, if any, to back themselves & the possibility some folks might take that poorly thought out message as gospel. Few people here have the training background to believe their way is correct because if they did they would understand that there are always exceptions to the generally thought rule of thumb. Even the pro I trained with for years did not feel he knew it all, though I know he knew an awful lot & has the pelts to prove that .

    I could go through a ton of those exceptions - but I'll pass a few on: 1) why is it some folks can pick a pup 1st from a litter, train with folks who got a later pick, but always end up with a failure while others go on to great success? 2) why do some folks seem to have dogs that never pass OFA while dogs from the same litter all pass? 3) how does someone pick a pup from a repeat breeding where the previous breeding probably had close to a quarter of a mil spent on training & campaigning with one derby lister, yet manages to end up with a dog that will be in the HOF & rightfully so?
    Marvin, what is your definition of a pelt?
    "Determining and applying the criteria for when and when not to use correction is the essence of the art of dog training. I make a distinction between a mistake and a lack of effort." - Mike Lardy - Volume I "After Collar Conditioning"

  9. #19
    Senior Member Howard N's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chris Atkinson View Post
    Marvin, what is your definition of a pelt?
    I'm not Marvin, but.......

    Small part of Jim Gonia's or other top pro's wall:



    Howard's wall:



    Some people talk a great line of BS. What have they accomplished? At the end of the season are there any pelts or is it all BS?

    Dad was a trapper, with pelts regards,
    Last edited by Howard N; 04-07-2013 at 10:01 PM.
    Howard Niemi

    You really gotta be careful about how high a pedestal you put your method, your accomplishments, your dog on. There's usually someone who's done more, somewhere. And they may have used a different method than you did! Chris Atkinson 2013

    get your dog out and TRAIN! caryalsobrook 2013

  10. #20
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    Several have mentioned "health". Maybe I've had a few glasses tonight and am feeling a little sorry for myself... but my young dog (went to the Master National last October) has a heart murmur. Low grade (2/6). May not ever cause problems... But it's just resistance, flow, viscosity and the Law of LaPlace, if you know your physics. (Really have to step away from the wine glass) Anyhow, there isn't anything you can do about that stuff. She's from good, honest (if not renowned) stock and came from a conscientious breeder. You takes what you gots.

    I understand that when the litter is on the ground, you reach in and grab one. They're little pigs in a poke so to speak. But, if my old guy goes the way of all flesh this year, where do I start? What lines do I seek out?

    Can you explain "bottom" to me a little more. Is it what I would call drive and tenacity? Or is there more to it than that? In who's off-spring are you seeing it?

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