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Thread: What do you look for in a pup and in what order

  1. #31
    Senior Member HarryWilliams's Avatar
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    To the original thread, I want a pup from 2 parents of what the OP listed. I then want an energetic, birdy pup. Then the fun begins. HPW
    "Sometimes we just gotta do what is right". Jerry 2006

    See ya in the field. HPW

  2. #32
    Administrator Chris Atkinson's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marvin S View Post
    It's something picked up from Guy Burnett. We used to go to E Missoula to a great Steak house Saturday night after the trial. Guy used the term in one of his speech's he gave yearly for the crowd. Guy was someone who treated all of us as if we were special to the sport & maybe we were. As Guy said "you don't get trapping advice from a trapper with no pelts on his wall". Howard's picture says it all.
    I get that Marvin. I just saw that you referenced your database, which apparently would have specific metrics to define what a "pelt" is. So I was curious what your definition of a measuarable pelt would be in your "database".

    One other thought is that CDoc may have earned "pelts" since the database was last updated.

    http://ftretrieverjudge.net/index.html

    JUDGES Updated - 1-13-2008
    STATUS - 1-12-2009
    APPROVED Updated- 7-09-2009
    PERSONAL Updated- 1-24-2007
    FACTOIDS Updated- 1-24-2007
    RULES Update - Original---
    Hey, I called out CDoc a while back myself. I felt some of his responses were overly absolute. I questioned him on his accomplishments. I did, hower choose to list mine up front when I did it.

    I later felt badly for being too "mean spirited" and apologized. I felt it was unbecoming of who I personally choose to be on RTF. Part of that is because I'm the janitor, I guess.

    Some have accused me of being more like a University of Pennsylvania "Quaker" rather than my actual alma-mater: a Penn State "Nittany Lion".
    "Determining and applying the criteria for when and when not to use correction is the essence of the art of dog training. I make a distinction between a mistake and a lack of effort." - Mike Lardy - Volume I "After Collar Conditioning"

  3. #33
    Senior Member JusticeDog's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chris Atkinson View Post
    I questioned him on his accomplishments. I did, hower choose to list mine up front when I did it.
    Marvin's name is not a secret so it's quite easy to look up his "pelts" although back in the dark ages they didn't have everything computerized like they do now. But still easy enough. I am pretty sure Marvin used an abacus when he went to school. You list your name, Chris, so it's easy to see how much you've judged, and ran. Except NAHRA, which really isn't a field trial pelt, nor are the games the same. Same for HRC, really, although you can find more on line.

    when people want to be cagey, hide behind a screen name and won't tell who they are when asked, that's another story. They go on to state they have never trained a dog, but yet, go on to pontificate about what "bottom" is, how to train a retriever and the like, use phrases out of TRT albeit improperly, and give questionable advice to newbies, they have no credibility in my book. They have "NO PELTS."
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  4. #34
    Administrator Chris Atkinson's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JusticeDog View Post
    Marvin's name is not a secret so it's quite easy to look up his "pelts" although back in the dark ages they didn't have everything computerized like they do now. But still easy enough. I am pretty sure Marvin used an abacus when he went to school. You list your name, Chris, so it's easy to see how much you've judged, and ran. Except NAHRA, which really isn't a field trial pelt, nor are the games the same. Same for HRC, really, although you can find more on line.

    when people want to be cagey, hide behind a screen name and won't tell who they are when asked, that's another story. They go on to state they have never trained a dog, but yet, go on to pontificate about what "bottom" is, how to train a retriever and the like, use phrases out of TRT albeit improperly, and give questionable advice to newbies, they have no credibility in my book. They have "NO PELTS."
    I've not asked Marvin to quantify his pelts.

    I've asked Marvin for his definition of pelts, which he wrote come from his database.

    I'm assuming that I would have zero pelts, , I'm confident my NAHRA upbringing and my HRC involvement will not show in Marvin's database. If the most recent updates for AKC Trials are accurate, I'm sure I have zero there. I have tried searching the database that I linked in an earlier post, which I'm assuming is Marvin's database. I was not able to find any specific metrics at all. Maybe I'm using it wrong. Maybe part of it is disabled.

    If the definition of a pelt is an AKC FT title in All Age stakes, I have zero. If the definition is All Age judging points, I have zero.
    "Determining and applying the criteria for when and when not to use correction is the essence of the art of dog training. I make a distinction between a mistake and a lack of effort." - Mike Lardy - Volume I "After Collar Conditioning"

  5. #35
    Senior Member road kill's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by copterdoc View Post
    Who did that?
    I deleted my post.
    I know little to nothing about dog training, therefore I withdrew the comment.
    Sorry.


    I did stay in a Holiday Inn once though!
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  6. #36
    Senior Member huntinman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by copterdoc View Post
    When you see it, you know it.
    And it makes your knees weak, and might just bring a tear to your eye.

    It's damn special, when you have a dog that has it.
    When you see that in a six week old puppy give me a call. I want to see it too.
    Bill Davis

  7. #37
    Senior Member JusticeDog's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chris Atkinson View Post
    I've not asked Marvin to quantify his pelts.
    Actually, I felt you did..... when you wrote this:

    I questioned him on his accomplishments. I did, hower choose to list mine up front when I did it.
    The implication is that Marvin should show his "pelts", although in certain states, he could get arrested for it.

    Seemed like the age old game of "I'll show you mine if you show me yours...... "
    Last edited by JusticeDog; 04-08-2013 at 03:00 PM.
    Susan

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  8. #38
    Administrator Chris Atkinson's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JusticeDog View Post
    Actually, I felt you did..... when you wrote this:



    Seemed like the age old game of "I'll show you mine if you show me yours...... "
    OK. I can see that interpretation.

    Trust me though. I don't want to see Marvin's. Really. I don't.
    "Determining and applying the criteria for when and when not to use correction is the essence of the art of dog training. I make a distinction between a mistake and a lack of effort." - Mike Lardy - Volume I "After Collar Conditioning"

  9. #39
    Senior Member JusticeDog's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HarryWilliams View Post
    Howard, there might not have been many pelts on that wall but they look quite special. Harry
    Howard has more "pelts" than that.... I'm not worried that he is going "neked" up there in Alaska....
    Susan

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  10. #40
    Senior Member Ted Shih's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marvin S View Post

    I really dislike the finality of some folks expressing an opinion with little training experience or few pelts, if any, to back themselves & the possibility some folks might take that poorly thought out message as gospel. Few people here have the training background to believe their way is correct because if they did they would understand that there are always exceptions to the generally thought rule of thumb. Even the pro I trained with for years did not feel he knew it all, though I know he knew an awful lot & has the pelts to prove that .

    And this language doesn't suggest that Marvin is saying that "pelts" - which remain undefined - establish the validity of a person's opinion? Really?
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