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handling question-line

11K views 82 replies 15 participants last post by  Mary Lynn Metras 
#1 ·
so working through pattern blinds with 1 year old CLM and no big deal thought well this was easy he was lining every one of them. till i added the stickman like lardy instructs in diversions. had to handle away from it and on to blind. ran it a few times like that. then threw mark retrieved mark and then ran blind again had to handle away from fall.

my question is this:

in the early stages of handling are you wanting the most straight line you can get or is it ok for a little veer. in other words when he was say 5-10 yards off the line right or left i was met with a dilema. do i follow the saying "Over to the gold, back to the truck" or do i just give him a right/left back and let him drift back on line at this young stage. i went with the over and he'd take it but by the time he ran 5-10 steps and i whistled he'd over ran the line so then it was an opposite over. eventually i went with a back if he was within 5-10 yards off the line and he soon drifted back on line. now if he was well off the line i would of def given an over. luckily i never allowed a huge drift to occur before giving a whistle

obviously you want to keep high standards but at this early in the handling process do you have to build up the standard before you can keep it? or do you just start at the high standard and never drop down?
 
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#55 ·
so went back to the field today rain was due within an hour so i sat up just 1 winger. but to get the most of the diversion i sat it up between leg 1 and leg 2 (middle long leg) since he did pretty well with it on outside of leg 1 and 3. i did go with the duck mark. the wind was really going so the white t shirt on the winger was really an attention getter. ran leg 1. no handle. mark. then leg 1 again there was a bit of suction to the fall 1 cast. ran from opposite heeling position. no handle. then the middle leg where hed have to go behind winger. big suction to winger side. 3 casts. next little suction 1 cast. and then no suction no handle. picked up the winger and got it to truck right when it started sprinkling (homemade winger or rather electronics not waterproof)

finished the day with hand thrown remote sit singles between 75-150 yards. its been awhile since hes had real birds i was impressed with his holds considering his past issues with bumpers. got the bird in the garage drying and will probably take the day off tomorrow as a gulley washer and dangerous weather is due all day tomorrow. convinced the wife to get a deep freeze for more birds now i just need a dedicated refrigerator for them.

i guess he was a bit wore out from the marks. do dogs eventually learn to pace themselves? he seems like the first 2 blinds or marks he's 120% then it starts to take a drop. although you just say "up-up" and hes back at full throttle for his reward. i usually water him when we are finished. he was lapping it up and just start peeing and drinking at the same time. it was weird
 
#72 ·
I was trying to find a common denominator in our experiences with dogs.

Duckq, Steve, et al are saying dogs need to learn to run past the gunner, trust the handler and the communication given to them at the line. I train with some folks whose dogs run within inches of a poison bird and ignore it. The handler has somehow communicated this to them.

Running straight past the gunner, not caving to suction, etc. are skills the dog must learn, at least in FTs. As I understand the dispute, Duckq says this comes up in the PB/blind drill portion of TRT. You say no. Ok then, where in TRT does Lardy say to teach this stuff to the dog? If not in the PB/blind drill section, where?
 
#75 ·
I was trying to find a common denominator in our experiences with dogs.

Duckq, Steve, et al are saying dogs need to learn to run past the gunner, trust the handler and the communication given to them at the line. I train with some folks whose dogs run within inches of a poison bird and ignore it. The handler has somehow communicated this to them.

Running straight past the gunner, not caving to suction, etc. are skills the dog must learn, at least in FTs. As I understand the dispute, Duckq says this comes up in the PB/blind drill portion of TRT. You say no.
Think this "dispute" is just a matter of internet semantics.
Everyones' right!
Yes, the dog needs to run past a diversion on the way to a known destination.
Yes, the dog should take the line given, but it's no big deal if the line isn't surveyed in perfect.
Yes, you HAVE to be able to handle the dog past a diversion here, and if you don't add any suction or there's no handling, you're not accomplishing anything x-cept maybe conditioning the dog to run to a sight mark or a known destination over and over again.

These are concepts that are just as useful afield for a Gundawg, as they are for a Test dog or FT's :cool:
 
#70 · (Edited)
Remember this is Gooser talkin....

Copterdoc says a LOT of good things for everyone to consider.

With my first 2 dogs, I had relativly meager success in HT's. I hunted both of them,, and they were nice to hunt with. Ran OK blinds... Hunting blinds.

I followed (i thought) lardy. I watched and listened about reading the dog, moving on in so many days, trying to copy what I saw on the dvd,s...
I like his program,, BUT,,

I decided to get help with my new puppy...

I have had it drilled into my head, to concentrate on teaching the dog to handel.. Teach the young dog to handel... be able to take many casts,, be able to take many whistles.. Concentrate and maintain that crisp ,square sit, and cast!!!!
We went straight from a long dose ( almost 2 months) of Pile work, T and TT to the casting wagon wheel, to true cold blinds..
WAY more time than I did with my first dogs...

Those first cold blinds were ugly,, that was expected.. The blinds were run in 3's, with 3 bumpers at each location... you followed the dog out...
The focus at first was using the concepts learned in the yard, and transferring it to the field. it was about the "sit",, the cast, and the change of direction..
You were teaching the dog to HANDLE.......

You followed the dog out, staying 50 to 75 yrd away from the dog. when the dog picked up the bumper, you would call the dog in,and move back quickly towards the line, and recieve the dog in a front finish position, at about the half way point, take the bumper, and give a back castPaying attention then to trying to keep the dog online, by HANDLEING....This also helped with momentum. when the dog picked up the second bumper at that first destination,, you moved quickly back to the original line, and recieved the dog at the heel position, then sent the dog for the last bumper of the original destination from the side send.. Didnrt take long, and the dog was lining that third time running hard, and straight.. This first position was usually the center blind of the three..

Then you sent for the outside locations..... NOW,,, you REALLY have diversion.. the dog WANTS again to go back to that center location,, so again,,, you get the opportunity to teach and HANDLE. Working on the cast again, and the "sit". repeat the proceedure as in the irst location,, then run the last pile....

Eventually, the dog learns to take a pretty good intitial line.. pretty good,, and at first the send may be slow and cautious on the first blind,, but over time all this improves.

There is very little correction during this process. Prolly the only correction is for a slow ,sloppy sit,but other than that, all attrition, and teaching to handle..

I remember doing pattern blinds with my first dogs, and they learned that very well. they ran the patterns with extream confidence,, but when I went to our first cold blinds with them,, they showed the same issues as the puppy I have now showed when ruuning her first blinds. They didnt handel all that well, because they were'nt given the opportunity to be handeled. They learned to basically IGNOR all the diversion,, and just run to the known pile and pick up the bird. They didnt really get that many casts and whistles, COMPARATIVELY, so,,,, We had to teach the Handeling part of COLD BLINDS anyways..

Like I have repeatedly said,,, I have had it drilled into me to teach the dog to handle.. Try to take advantage of every opportunity to handle that you can. Dont miss that opportunity.. Thats what you are seeking,, the opportunity to teach the dog to handel..

I am constantly reminded that I miss many opportunitied to handle, and I dont pay attention to a slow sit, a standard you have to keep high,, or you will loose it...

I suck at this!!!! I find it very hard to kep all the "stuff" straight in my head when running the dog. I have been told it will get better for me over time also..
 
#71 ·
Do I run FT's?

NO!

Will my dog be successful in them? or HT's???

I think there are Many aspects of being successful..... The most important being the handler. Right now,, I dont feel comfortable with MY aspects of handling, to be successful at either the Higher levels of hT's,, and especially FT's. Nerves are my biggest enemy...

But, I will say, I am VERY happy with my young dog..

Gooser
 
#78 ·
I can't believe we get this stuff for free!!! :lol:
 
#82 ·
Another neat little tid-bit, is at the end of the article preceding the section on Pattern Blinds with Diversions.

It goes a little something like this; "By the time a dog runs his fifth or sixth blind drill, he is often lining the blinds - that is, lining directly to the blind without any casts. At this point, you should quit running blind drills........"

I wonder why that is? Oh yeah, he goes on to say why, in the same sentence.

"..........because, you don't want the dog to become too accustomed to going back to a blind he's just been to."
"You should continue handling training with diversion work on the pattern blind field."
 
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