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Thread: handling question-line

  1. #11
    Senior Member MooseGooser's Avatar
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    Here is a different way of looking at it.

    It has worked well for me.

    Notice,,, No pattern blinds.
    http://www.dannyfarmer.com/dannyfarm...20Farmer_1.pdf


    Gooser
    It is far easier to spit on the work of others than it is to produce something better yourself.
    Brynmoors Prairie Sage JH ​(Sage) Just a dang fool huntin Dawg
    HRCH Calypso Seven Bales High SH (Bailey)
    HR Calypso Zoomin Loosies Mad Hader (Maddi) We loved you baby. R.I.P.
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  2. #12
    Senior Member MooseGooser's Avatar
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    Just curious.

    How many of you that ran pattern blinds, then pattern blinds with diversion, had a dog that ran its first COLD blinds competently?
    Competently able to take a LOT of whistles, and used to being cast multiple times?? In other words a dog that handled relativly well?

    It seems to me , Pattern Blinds,,, might be a step in Lardy, that COULD be skipped.

    Gooser
    Last edited by MooseGooser; 04-09-2013 at 09:09 AM.
    It is far easier to spit on the work of others than it is to produce something better yourself.
    Brynmoors Prairie Sage JH ​(Sage) Just a dang fool huntin Dawg
    HRCH Calypso Seven Bales High SH (Bailey)
    HR Calypso Zoomin Loosies Mad Hader (Maddi) We loved you baby. R.I.P.
    FlatLanders Broken Pistol Ricochet SH (Flinch)


    My Christian Name is Michael Baker..
    I have gone by "Gooser" since I was a "gossling"

  3. #13
    Senior Member Duckquilizer's Avatar
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    TRT Flow Chart...Its there for a reason. Capture.JPG
    Kendall Layne

    HR(2xHRCH) Ashland's Big Black Ruby to Go SH
    Dorie's Lady of the Lake(1K bird club)

    Never play leap frog with a unicorn.

  4. #14
    Senior Member Duckquilizer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by copterdoc View Post
    I don't think that you need to run multiple diversions on the three-legged-pattern.

    You are trying to get the dog to the point that it can run cold blinds. You don't want to stay on the three-legged-pattern so long that returning to an "old" blind becomes one of your biggest battles on your early cold blinds.
    Copter, I have been wondering why some others are so down on you. I am beginning to understand. You are steering someone away from the best program made...



    Blake,

    The videos and manuals tell you what to do and how to do it. I just looked. The flow should be Pattern blinds, blind drills, and then pattern blinds with diversions(like the blind drills). Lots of attrition and a few corrections are allowed. If You have done blind drills, you have "taught" how the mechanics of running past a mark to a blind. That was the point. Now you are increasing the difficulty a little at a time in an enviroment that the dog knows. Do yourself a favor and stick to the program.
    Kendall Layne

    HR(2xHRCH) Ashland's Big Black Ruby to Go SH
    Dorie's Lady of the Lake(1K bird club)

    Never play leap frog with a unicorn.

  5. #15
    Senior Member Gun_Dog2002's Avatar
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    I think we're missing an important factor, the stickmen. As I read it the dog is doing fine on the pattern field but flaring away from the stickmen. Its important to make sure the dogs get comfortable staying tight to gun stations. Thus the purpose of adding them. Stick to literal casting, keep your standard for holding the line high and be especially careful about corrections around the stickmen. At this stage, mostly attrition vs burns.

    /Paul
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  6. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gun_Dog2002 View Post
    I think we're missing an important factor, the stickmen. As I read it the dog is doing fine on the pattern field but flaring away from the stickmen. Its important to make sure the dogs get comfortable staying tight to gun stations. Thus the purpose of adding them. Stick to literal casting, keep your standard for holding the line high and be especially careful about corrections around the stickmen. At this stage, mostly attrition vs burns.

    /Paul
    it was actually towards. left pattern blind. stickman was to the left 30 yards and mark was thrown left to right to where it was 15 yards off of the pattern blind line.


    yesterday ran blind drills twice. once on left leg then once on the right leg (with stickmen on the outside of the lines). not one handle. it seems that if i dont get a situation to handle in then how will we progress? or has he progressed enough that he knows the cue "dead" means i'm running a blind? i think one more day of blind drills to sure it up then we will go to the more complex diversions where they are between lines of the patterns (i.e. mark thrown between leg 1 and 2 and mark thrown between leg 2 and 3)

  7. #17
    Senior Member MooseGooser's Avatar
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    Take a look at this past thread on this subject, an take particular noteto /Pauls post #21.

    http://www.retrievertraining.net/for...ng-Marks/page2



    So, again I ask,,,For those that have run Patterns, How competently does the dog handel?
    Is he use to many whistles? Is he use to being given many casts on a blind?

    It seems to me, that spending just a mere week on patterns, you still will have to eventually teach the dog to handel..
    Why not go straight to that step, just as the dog comes out of the yard with a GOOD DOSED of the T and TT,, and Casting wagon wheels, and lining wagon wheels??

    Gooser
    Last edited by MooseGooser; 04-09-2013 at 10:19 AM.
    It is far easier to spit on the work of others than it is to produce something better yourself.
    Brynmoors Prairie Sage JH ​(Sage) Just a dang fool huntin Dawg
    HRCH Calypso Seven Bales High SH (Bailey)
    HR Calypso Zoomin Loosies Mad Hader (Maddi) We loved you baby. R.I.P.
    FlatLanders Broken Pistol Ricochet SH (Flinch)


    My Christian Name is Michael Baker..
    I have gone by "Gooser" since I was a "gossling"

  8. #18
    Senior Member mitty's Avatar
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    Gooser! You are being naughty, trying to steer someone training their first dog away from their program. Bad Gooser!

    I did appreciate the link to the Farmer article, though.

    The TRT pattern blinds teach the dog all kinds of things. Dog learns angle backs. Dog learns lining. Dog learns to run blinds and marks on the same field. Dog learns poison bird blinds. Dog learns to run tight to the gunner. Dog learns to run under the arc. One drill does all this. Probably more.

    P.S. I looked at the thread you referenced. Not all PBs are created equal. The dog is supposed to learn handling from them in TRT. Once they learn the destinations, the diversions are piled on to teach handling.

    P.S.S. I did not understand any of this when I first did them!
    Last edited by mitty; 04-09-2013 at 10:51 AM.
    Renee P

  9. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by MooseGooser View Post
    Take a look at this past thread on this subject, an take particular noteto /Pauls post #21.

    http://www.retrievertraining.net/for...ng-Marks/page2



    So, again I ask,,,For those that have run Patterns, How competently does the dog handel?
    Is he use to many whistles? Is he use to being given many casts on a blind?

    It seems to me, that spending just a mere week on patterns, you still will have to eventually teach the dog to handel..
    Why not go straight to that step, just as the dog comes out of the yard with a GOOD DOSED of the T and TT,, and Casting wagon wheels, and lining wagon wheels??

    Gooser
    i cant answer your question as this is my first dog. but it would seem that it goes back to the trust thing. if he knows there is blind out there (taught vs cold) then he's probably more willing to trust your handling. i know if i was to of gone from TT to cold when i would of given an over or probably when i just sent him on back he'd look up and say "wait a minute i didnt see you plant anything there's nothing out there". whereas in pattern blinds he knows its out there and the distance and other factors (diversions, wind, terrain) may deter him momentarily but "have no fear your handler is here" to get you back on track. the dog would then beleive the casts rather than be aprehensive towards it.


    nice thread link though. i think the forum has missed out on alot of info by not having captainjack around. he indeed was a Lardy afficianado.

  10. #20
    Senior Member MooseGooser's Avatar
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    I'm not trying to convince anyone to stray away from a program they are following,, but rather, just tyring to add discussion..
    Its boring to just constantly hear "Just follow the program".

    I would think, that the dog that has had a couple a weeks in patterns, will still struggle when sat down, and sent to a cold blind, on a new field.

    I mean you are handling to a known location with patterns...

    I would agree to the point of not spending much time on patterns,,, just get the dog the basic idea, then move on.... Move on to Cold blinds,, and THEN teach the dog to handel..

    Dont see what the big deal is in MAYBE skipping the pattern step...

    The dog will progress well as you run MANY, MANY, MANY blinds.. Confidence ,lines, and 'Go" will come in time.
    Last edited by MooseGooser; 04-09-2013 at 11:08 AM.
    It is far easier to spit on the work of others than it is to produce something better yourself.
    Brynmoors Prairie Sage JH ​(Sage) Just a dang fool huntin Dawg
    HRCH Calypso Seven Bales High SH (Bailey)
    HR Calypso Zoomin Loosies Mad Hader (Maddi) We loved you baby. R.I.P.
    FlatLanders Broken Pistol Ricochet SH (Flinch)


    My Christian Name is Michael Baker..
    I have gone by "Gooser" since I was a "gossling"

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