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Thread: handling question-line

  1. #21
    Senior Member copterdoc's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Duckquilizer View Post
    Copter, I have been wondering why some others are so down on you. I am beginning to understand. You are steering someone away from the best program made.....
    Instead of reading INTO what I said, you would probably be better off just simply reading what I said.

    Quote Originally Posted by copterdoc View Post
    I don't think that you need to run multiple diversions on the three-legged-pattern.

    You are trying to get the dog to the point that it can run cold blinds. You don't want to stay on the three-legged-pattern so long that returning to an "old" blind becomes one of your biggest battles on your early cold blinds.

  2. #22
    Senior Member mitty's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MooseGooser View Post
    I'm not trying to convince anyone to stray away from a program they are following,, but rather, just tyring to add discussion..
    Its boring to just constantly hear "Just follow the program".

    I would think, that the dog that has had a couple a weeks in patterns, will still struggle when sat down, and sent to a cold blind, on a new field.

    I mean you are handling to a known location with patterns...

    I would agree to the point of not spending much time on patterns,,, just get the dog the basic idea, then move on.... Move on to Cold blinds,, and THEN teach the dog to handel..

    Dont see what the big deal is in MAYBE skipping the pattern step...

    The dog will progress well as you run MANY, MANY, MANY blinds.. Confidence ,lines, and 'Go" will come in time.
    Do you remember how many sessions it took you to teach Flinch lining wagon wheel? How about casting wagon wheel?

    My dog knew how to line for wagon wheel from doing the TRT pattern blinds. I totally screwed up the casting part, though.
    Renee P

  3. #23
    Senior Member Duckquilizer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mitty View Post
    Gooser! You are being naughty, trying to steer someone training their first dog away from their program. Bad Gooser!

    I did appreciate the link to the Farmer article, though.

    The TRT pattern blinds teach the dog all kinds of things. Dog learns angle backs. Dog learns lining. Dog learns to run blinds and marks on the same field. Dog learns poison bird blinds. Dog learns to run tight to the gunner. Dog learns to run under the arc. One drill does all this. Probably more.

    P.S. I looked at the thread you referenced. Not all PBs are created equal. The dog is supposed to learn handling from them in TRT. Once they learn the destinations, the diversions are piled on to teach handling.

    P.S.S. I did not understand any of this when I first did them!
    Gooser, this is the way I see it that Renee stated. There are so many things you teach in pattern blinds and it is because it gives pup familiar ground to work on, a place to build on. If you just skipped it, you would be just finding yourself hunting another way to teach these concepts. Its more that just running to a spot they know. Its adding factors and keeping momentem up.
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  4. #24
    Senior Member MooseGooser's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mitty View Post
    Do you remember how many sessions it took you to teach Flinch lining wagon wheel? How about casting wagon wheel?

    My dog knew how to line for wagon wheel from doing the TRT pattern blinds. I totally screwed up the casting part, though.

    I dont know that I "Taught" her either of them.....

    We spent a TON of time on pile work,,and the T and TT.....


    When pup was really young,, and teaching simple casting, I was ahead of the game cause she learned right and left hand backs.

    so the transition to the handling wagon wheel was easy.. didnt drill it into her head,,just did it for a few days,, then moved on to Cold blinds...
    Now,I will say,, somedays before I run my blinds, I will run a bit of lining wagon wheels, or casting wagon wheels BEFORE I run a 3 or 4 blind set up..
    I am very happy with her progress. She is the most "compliant" dog I have ever had..

    Ithink the link to Farmer shows He thinks teaching the dog to Handel is most important... Lining will come eventually..
    I AM CONSTANTLY REMINDED I MISS THE OPPORTUNITY TO HANDLE..

    CONSTANTLY, CONSTANTLY CONSTANLY..
    Last edited by MooseGooser; 04-09-2013 at 11:54 AM.
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  5. #25
    Senior Member MooseGooser's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Duckquilizer View Post
    Gooser, this is the way I see it that Renee stated. There are so many things you teach in pattern blinds and it is because it gives pup familiar ground to work on, a place to build on. If you just skipped it, you would be just finding yourself hunting another way to teach these concepts. Its more that just running to a spot they know. Its adding factors and keeping momentem up.
    I beleive there are MANY very nice dogs, that have never run a pattern blind...
    Last edited by MooseGooser; 04-09-2013 at 12:00 PM.
    It is far easier to spit on the work of others than it is to produce something better yourself.
    Brynmoors Prairie Sage JH ​(Sage) Just a dang fool huntin Dawg
    HRCH Calypso Seven Bales High SH (Bailey)
    HR Calypso Zoomin Loosies Mad Hader (Maddi) We loved you baby. R.I.P.
    FlatLanders Broken Pistol Ricochet SH (Flinch)


    My Christian Name is Michael Baker..
    I have gone by "Gooser" since I was a "gossling"

  6. #26
    Senior Member Clay Warren's Avatar
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    I am a strong believer in pattern blinds. They are just another "baby step" to running the dog on cold blinds. However, I don't run the dogs into the ground on them. The major purpose for them is to teach handling in the field with the use of diversions as possible suction zones. I also use them to teach dry shots, poison birds, under the arc, etc. Don't worry about precision casting, cast to get the blind. Lardy advocates a delay from TT to the introduction of patterns to avoid another drill-like atmosphere for the patterns but a more "field retrieve" feel to the blinds. I don't spend nearly the amount of time teaching the locations of the pattern blinds that I would establishing the T in TT and progress to running the legs cold with orange bumpers when the dog is confident of the locations (even if I have to cast away from a diversion). If you have a dog that realizes the difference between running these taught blinds with diversions mixed in I think you've got it and many different setups in the pattern blind field can test the dog on this. I spend maybe 5-7 days doing this then move to taught blinds or simple colds then add diversions in different locations.

    IMO running dogs on cold blinds, even simple ones, right out of TT has the potential to create extreme confusion especially if you try and add diversions. Popping, no-goes, bugging, can all be avoided or minimized by using the building blocks of the less drill-like activities such as patterns and simple taught blinds on the way to running blinds cold but that's just my
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  7. #27
    Senior Member Clay Warren's Avatar
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    I guess what I was trying to say was; if you have to handle off the diversion, good! That's the purpose of the activity. "Okay Iam suppose to go to the blind when he says "dead bird" and get the mark when he says "mark"". Don't worry about lining the blinds perfectly that will come in time.
    "Dont insult the alligator until you have crossed the river"

  8. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Clay Warren View Post
    I guess what I was trying to say was; if you have to handle off the diversion, good! That's the purpose of the activity. "Okay Iam suppose to go to the blind when he says "dead bird" and get the mark when he says "mark"". Don't worry about lining the blinds perfectly that will come in time.
    but i didnt have to handle yesterday (2nd day of diversion). he went right for blind (pretty much lined it) so should i make the diversions more "appealing" so that i have to handle? that way he can get the experience of handling in the field down?

  9. #29
    Senior Member mitty's Avatar
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    Does anyone know, would it be consistent with Lardy to direct dog to one of the blinds, or the diversion, and then handle them to a different destination?
    Renee P

  10. #30
    Senior Member Clay Warren's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by blake_mhoona View Post
    but i didnt have to handle yesterday (2nd day of diversion). he went right for blind (pretty much lined it) so should i make the diversions more "appealing" so that i have to handle? that way he can get the experience of handling in the field down?
    I think you need to read your dog and ask yourself if he understands the concept of running a blind with a diversion. If the answer is yes then I wouldn't make the diversion more appealing I would take the next step to running cold blinds, move to a different location, run taught blinds or simple colds (depending on the dogs competence) and add diversions. I think you will find that this will create some opportunities for you to handle off a diversion.
    "Dont insult the alligator until you have crossed the river"

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