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Thread: US support of UN to increase

  1. #31
    Senior Member road kill's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JDogger View Post
    I believe the continued implementation of the ACA will move us towards healthcare parity with other developed nations.
    Please list the "developed nations" with which you seek "healthcare parity."
    Last edited by road kill; 04-15-2013 at 08:51 AM.
    Stan b & Elvis

  2. #32
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    [QUOTECan you give an answer as to why? JD][/QUOTE]

    Because some day all uniforms will be blue. They have been training in the US for years. Don't worry JD,, They are not going any where,,
    Pete
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    I can of my own self do nothing ,as I hear , I judge,,and my judgement is just, because I seek not my own will,,but the will of the father which hath sent me
    John 7:16 -- Jesus answered them and said my doctrine is not mine, but his that sent me.
    mark 16:9 -- So then after the lord had spoken unto them,he was received up in heaven, and sat on the right hand of God
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  3. #33
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    John 5 :30
    I can of my own self do nothing ,as I hear , I judge,,and my judgement is just, because I seek not my own will,,but the will of the father which hath sent me
    John 7:16 -- Jesus answered them and said my doctrine is not mine, but his that sent me.
    mark 16:9 -- So then after the lord had spoken unto them,he was received up in heaven, and sat on the right hand of God
    I Tim. 2:5 --For there is one God and one mediator between God and man ,, the man Christ Jesus

  4. #34
    Senior Member twall's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JDogger View Post
    Can you give me specifics on facts, not feelings, on how the ACA is a bad thing.
    This country should have the best, most affordable healthcare in the world. Sadly we do not. Why is that? JD
    JD,

    When you look at other countries that have single-payer insurance you will find dramatic changes in how healthcare is provided. You rarely find the best also being the most affordable. Since it is easier to measure affordable that tends to be the metric that drives everything. While our current system is not single-payer it will become one with time. Why will businesses keep providing health insurance when it is cheaper to just pay the government fine? Eventually, the pool for private insurance will become too small to support itself. We will then end up with politically appointed bureaucrats deciding who gets what to be the most efficient. This will take medical decisions away from the doctors and patients. Those that become 'less' valuable to society will get an ever shrinking piece of the pie. It doesn't matter which politacl party is in charge with this system, just look at medicaid/medicare/social security.

    I don't think we are going to end up with either the most affordable or the best.

    I think this will end up being terrible for our country, even though it will be better for the business I work for since it will increase the number of people who have 'insurance.'

    Tom
    Tom Wall

  5. #35
    Senior Member JDogger's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by road kill View Post
    Please list the "developed nations" with which you seek "healthcare parity."
    Stan I'll try answer both you and twall.

    Quote Originally Posted by twall View Post
    JD,
    When you look at ther countries that have single-payer insurance you will find dramatic changes in how healthcare is provided. You rarely find the best also being the most affordable. Since it is easier to measure affordable that tends to be the metric that drives everything. While our current system is not single-payer it will become one with time. Why will businesses keep providing health insurance when it is cheaper to just pay the government fine? Eventually, the pool for private insurance will become too small to support itself. We will then end up with politically appointed bureaucrats deciding who gets what to be the most efficient. This will take medical decisions away from the doctors and patients. Those that become 'less' valuable to society will get an ever shrinking piece of the pie. It doesn't matter which politacl party is in charge with this system, just look at medicaid/medicare/social security.

    I don't think we are going to end up with either the most affordable or the best.

    I think this will end up being terrible for our country, even though it will be better for the business I work for since it will increase the number of people who have 'insurance.'

    Tom

    http://www.businessinsider.com/best-...ld-2012-6?op=1

    I'll leave you both to look at my link. There are many others, to be sure. Tom, should we not at least strive for the 'best'? even if we pay a little more? As of now we pay alot more.

    Please note that most of these are not single payer. JD

    JD
    Last edited by JDogger; 04-15-2013 at 10:30 PM.
    One cannot reason someone out of something they were not reasoned into. - Jonathan Swift

  6. #36
    Senior Member Gerry Clinchy's Avatar
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    Obama did not pass the ACA, Congress did, and that includes members of the republican controlled House of Representatives.
    Actually the House did not pass it.

    The Senate took a bill that the House passed, that had nothing to do with ACA, stripped the innards, and replaced that with the ACA verbiage. This is now the basis for a lawsuit. Once the SCOTUS called the "penalty" a "tax", it opened the door for the fact that all funding/taxing bills must begin in the House. There's really more detail to the whole thing, but that is a rough overview. So, the question is whether the subterfuge practiced by the Senate in passing the ACA will actually hold water.

    If so, then we could end up with only 1/2 a Congress, if the Senate could do this any time they wanted to.

    This country should have the best, most affordable healthcare in the world. Sadly we do not. Why is that? JD
    The short answer: There ain't no free lunch.

    We are quickly finding that the ACA will not accomplish this either. There WILL be someone deciding that someone is too old to get the best care; or chances of survival for a long enough time are not good enough. While insurance companies may make some of those decisions now, the courts were a recourse. When the govt is making those decisions. there will be no recourse.

    I think we probably do have the best health care in the world, but not the most affordable. However, some countries have found that they can have affordable health care (UK, Canada, et al), but not everyone will always get the best care available. Remember, the UK is now encouraging individuals to get their health care outside the govt system (and pay the provider directly).

    In the end, both in socialized medicine and in the US, those who can pay for the best care (or best insurance) get the best care (unless your Hugo Chavez and foolishly let your ideology choose your physicians); and others get less.

    There simply isn't enough money in the whole economy to give everyone the best health care available. There are probably ways to get more quality health care to more people, but ACA isn't going to do that.

    Ron Paul was correct, I think, when he harkened back to the day when people expected to pay their doctor for routine office visits, and only had insurance (if they had it) for catastrophic coverage. And people weren't thinking of suing their doctors at the drop of a hat. (Someone recently told me that an ob-gyn could be paying 6 figures in malpractice premiums each year. All patients contribute to the cost of that in the cost of the ob-gyn's services.)

    OTOH, if you're in prison, you get free health care Maybe the criminals are onto something?
    G.Clinchy@gmail.com
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  7. #37
    Senior Member JDogger's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ken Bora View Post
    cool, let um move to Bangladesh!
    and yes JD we (you and me and our taxes you see)
    are the sharp point.
    the U.N. is the 10 year olds ruffhousing by the swingset.
    We are the older brother working on our '71 Malibu in the driveway that those little kids fear.
    it is what it is.
    You do not see Kim Jong Ill trying to piss off Bangladesh on your NBC newsfeed do you????
    Well, that would be hard to do since Kim Jong Il and his father Kim Yong Il-sung are both dead. Kim Jong-un however is a thorny little baskird and he worries diplomats from DC to Bangladesh and beyond.
    ...and older brother???? Who knows?
    Last edited by JDogger; 04-15-2013 at 11:38 PM.
    One cannot reason someone out of something they were not reasoned into. - Jonathan Swift

  8. #38
    Senior Member Ken Bora's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JDogger View Post
    Well, that would be hard to do since Kim Jong Il and his father Kim Yong Il-sung are both dead. Kim Jong-un however is a thorny little baskird and he worries diplomats from DC to Bangladesh and beyond.
    ...and older brother???? Who knows?
    here a kim there a kim everywere a kim kim!
    line um up and you got a '60's pop group "Hey, Hey We're the Flunkies!"
    been carrying China's water for 3 generations!
    don't branch of and be smartypants with ill or un.... focus! Hugh can do it!!!
    "So what is big is not always the Trout nor the Deer but the chance, the being there. And what is full is not necessarily the creel nor the freezer, but the memory." ~ Aldo Leopold

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  9. #39
    Senior Member Julie R.'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JDogger View Post
    I do not refer to the ACA as Obamacare. If you care to that is your choice. If you wish to assume that, that is my choice, go for it. There are many models of healthcare out there. I will say that while many models do not fit my desire, I would like to see healthcare for profit disappear. Clear? JD

    OK if the real aim of making health care affordable was the goal, then why not start by curtailing the cozy relationships Big Pharma has with the insurance companies and medicare/medicaid? How does it make insurance, now mandatory, more affordable by forcing Big Insurance to cover pre-existing conditions? The entire premise of the ACA is so special-interest driven and full of exemptions/separate provisions for special interest groups (including Congress) that it's kind of hard to take the noble intention of making health care affordable seriously. If this POTUS seriously wanted to make health care more affordable, why not tackle the built in fraud/price gouging already in the govt.-run programs; better yet, why not take employers out of the picture totally?

    As for the UN, it's become nothing more than a U.S.-funded country club for the elite haters, those few who make it out of the ever multiplying masses from the Third World and have no desire to return to the squalor of their own countries. They prefer to live in N.Y. or Geneva, spewing anti-U.S. rhetoric while living off our largesse. And we pay for this? The U.N. is nothing more than a soapbox to promote divvying up American dollars, technology and know-how to reward tin pot and banana republic dictators that happily butcher their own people to ensure the wealth remains in their own hands. Get the U.N. out of the U.S. and the U.S. out of the U.N.!
    Julie R., Hope Springs Farm
    Chesapeake Bay Retrievers since 1981

  10. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by Julie R. View Post
    OK if the real aim of making health care affordable was the goal, then why not start by curtailing the cozy relationships Big Pharma has with the insurance companies and medicare/medicaid? How does it make insurance, now mandatory, more affordable by forcing Big Insurance to cover pre-existing conditions? The entire premise of the ACA is so special-interest driven and full of exemptions/separate provisions for special interest groups (including Congress) that it's kind of hard to take the noble intention of making health care affordable seriously. If this POTUS seriously wanted to make health care more affordable, why not tackle the built in fraud/price gouging already in the govt.-run programs; better yet, why not take employers out of the picture totally?

    As for the UN, it's become nothing more than a U.S.-funded country club for the elite haters, those few who make it out of the ever multiplying masses from the Third World and have no desire to return to the squalor of their own countries. They prefer to live in N.Y. or Geneva, spewing anti-U.S. rhetoric while living off our largesse. And we pay for this? The U.N. is nothing more than a soapbox to promote divvying up American dollars, technology and know-how to reward tin pot and banana republic dictators that happily butcher their own people to ensure the wealth remains in their own hands. Get the U.N. out of the U.S. and the U.S. out of the U.N.!
    Bingo ! Great summary.
    charly

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