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Thread: The Immigration Bill

  1. #1
    Senior Member Gerry Clinchy's Avatar
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    Default The Immigration Bill

    Do you think this will work any better than the last amnesty? Fox published this outline of the information in the bill, that was provided to them

    http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2013...-for-millions/

    It would require the Homeland Security Department to create and launch plans for border security and fencing before illegal immigrants can enter a provisional status. This could happen as early as six months after enactment of the bill.
    It might also be helpful if HSD came up with some way to measure the effectiveness of their security measures ... which is a "void" right now.

    They would remain in that provisional status for 10 years, able to work legally but barred from federal benefits like welfare or health care.

    Many are already receiving same as a result of anchor babies, it would appear.


    After 10 years they could seek green cards conferring permanent legal status, provided the security and fencing plans have been "substantially" carried out. And they will measure effectiveness by ??

    After another three years, those immigrants could petition for citizenship.
    It would appear that many of them do not have an interest in becoming citizens ... or even learn English.



    In total, the bill creates a minimum 13-year path to citizenship for up to 11 million illegal immigrants, costing them each $2,000 in fines plus additional fees. They really expect 11 million people to sign up to pay $2000 and taxes & additional fees ... when they are getting the benefit of a job now with none of those "expenses"?

    If they say that deporting this many people is too big a job, won't "signing them up" be just as big a job as sending them home? I can't see how finding the people & putting them on buses can be less time/labor intensive than running the same numbers through paperwork centers (requiring a lot more time & expense than the gas and a bus driver).

    The plan might make some sense if they could be sure of border security to effectively monitor further illegal influx. However, we saw the last time that the border security was promised, but never materialized to an extent significant enough to prevent the problem we are again faced with.

    Applicants would have to meet other criteria as well in order to qualify.



    It might all make some kind of sense if they first concentrated on those illegals who had over-stayed visas first. That group had legitimate reasons for being here ... family, job, student. It seems a large percentage of that group might actually be law-abiding, working people who could deserve some special arrangements. They had some record of "following rules" when they got visas to enter the country to begin with.

    It has been reported that there has been a significant increase in illegal border crossings from Mexico, with these new immigrants anticipating being able to participate in the amnesty. While the job situation has not improved enough to attract them here, anticipation of the economy recovering would make the amnesty useful to them in the long run.

    Meanwhile, a young male illegal immigrant is on trial for murder, and his defense presented is that his cultural background makes him not responsible for his act of murder (dragging another man to death). Cut me a break! Such a defense would also mean that a Mexican drug dealer who beheads people could be "justified" based on his cultural background; or an adherent to Sharia law should not be held responsible for killing his daughter (another court case in recent history).

    The bill outline establishes numeric goals for border apprehensions, but it's unclear how closely meeting -- or missing -- those goals is tied to the pathway to legal status. Small loop hole.
    Conservatives say border security improvements should be verified before illegal immigrants can seek citizenship. Illegal immigrant advocates say their pathway should not be held up by that process.
    Why?

    Regardless, the plan dedicates billions to security efforts, including $3 billion to providing more border agents, customs agents and surveillance systems along the border; and $1.5 billion to building up border fencing.
    The security and legalization efforts, though, are only part of the sweeping plan.


    The legislation also would remake the nation's inefficient legal immigration system, creating new immigration opportunities for tens of thousands of high- and low-skilled workers, as well as a new "merit visa" aimed at bringing people with talents to the U.S.

    Employers would face tough new requirements to check the legal status of all workers. Why not start with this?

    The Senate Judiciary Committee will hold hearings on the bill beginning Friday and likely move to amend and vote on it in May, with action on the Senate floor expected later in the summer. The Republican-controlled House also must act, and opposition from some conservatives there is likely to be fierce.

    "The Senate proposal issues an open invitation to enter the country illegally," Rep. Lamar Smith, R-Texas, said on the House floor Monday. "Millions more will do so before the border is secure. The Senate proposal will dramatically increase illegal immigration."


    People brought here illegally as youths would have a faster path: They could get green cards in five years and would become eligible for citizenship immediately thereafter.
    G.Clinchy@gmail.com
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  2. #2
    Senior Member Gerry Clinchy's Avatar
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    Eric Holder's view of immigration reform:
    HOLDER: Creating a pathway to earned citizenship for the 11 million unauthorized immigrants in this country is absolutely essential. The way we treat our friends and neighbors who are undocumented by creating a mechanism for them to earn citizenship and to move out of the shadows transcends the issue of immigration status. This is a matter of civil and human rights. It's about who we are as a nation, and it goes to the core of our treasured American principle of equal opportunity.
    This is a civil rights matter? Does this mean that there is no point to the Constitution stipulating that it is a duty of govt to secure the borders?
    G.Clinchy@gmail.com
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    Senior Member Uncle Bill's Avatar
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    Holder's view is the same as Obama's...is the same as ALL the Democrat toady's in D.C.....get as many of those immigrants voting as soon as possible.

    This entire situation could be resolved overnight if they would open the borders to every illegal, but just don't give them a right to vote...EVER!!! PLUS, no welfare, food stamps, or anchor babies.

    UB
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    Just for reference, the Immigration and Customs Enforcement (ICE) officers are against the bill because of flaws in the enforcement section.
    Eric

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    Senior Member helencalif's Avatar
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    It is nonsense to think that 11 million "unauthorized immigrants" will want to undergo 13 years, pay a $2,000 fine, pay taxes they never paid before, and give up welfare, health care, and other benefits they are now receiving ... to become a U.S. citizen.

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    Senior Member huntinman's Avatar
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    Why should they care about being a citizen when they can get all the benefits already for free?
    Bill Davis

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    Member jim_de_hunter's Avatar
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    From what I'm hearing, the bill is starting to die because Republicans are starting to balk. If Boehner and McConnell don't bring their troops back in line, the party will continue to alienate the latino vote and the party will become less and less relevant.

  8. #8
    Senior Member Gerry Clinchy's Avatar
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    It occurs to me that while Latinos vote predominantly Democrat. I've heard mention that Latinos make up only 7% of the total vote, but vote 70% for Democrats. Where are the rest of the Latinos? Are they not yet citizens, so can't vote? Do they not care about voting.

    If they voite D, is it because they want to bring the rest of their families here? Supposedly family ties carry more weight under the present law than it would under the new law (except that present illegals won't be deported). Latinos would generally not favor abortion based on many being Roman Catholic. I understand that gays are not highly regarded by Latinos either.

    Truthfully, I think that hard-working individuals, of any ethnic group, would rather know that any given political party. has some values, period. That the policies don't shift with every trend. At least the Ds are consistent ... while the course of entitlements appears to create more dependency rather than inspiration. So the more people in the electorate who become dependent, the more they will vote D. If Rs want to survive, I think there has to be a difference between them and the other choice ... otherwise there is no raison d'etre.

    If the Rs have something to offer the electorate, their messaging sucks.

    Have to agree with Bill, and I've raised this question before. Why should the illegals line up and sign up? What is to be gained? Secure the borders and get e-verify working. If they can't work, the motivation to come here illegally will be diminished.

    As for the over-staying of visas, we have a d%%# record of those people, and they still disappear into the woodwork after their visas expire! If the INS can't keep track of them, when they have a record of their existence, how could we believe that INS is capable of doing anything in their job description?
    G.Clinchy@gmail.com
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    Senior Member luvmylabs23139's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jim_de_hunter View Post
    From what I'm hearing, the bill is starting to die because Republicans are starting to balk. If Boehner and McConnell don't bring their troops back in line, the party will continue to alienate the latino vote and the party will become less and less relevant.
    ANYONE who votes for any of this crap will lose my vote in a primary. I will still vote R over any DUM.
    This crap is a total slap in the face to anyone who played by the rules. This is personal for me. I came to the US on 4/1/67 with my green card in hand when I stepped off the plane at JFK. Yeah I know it was April fools day. My Dad seemed to have a thing about that day as it is also the day he proposed to my Mom.
    Hihope Hiland Heathen of Perth CD, RE, CGC, TDI

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    Senior Member BonMallari's Avatar
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    Boehner and McConnell.....those two are a HUGE part of the problem..I just cringe when I think that somehow the two of them have risen to lead my Party (yes I know that is an oxymoron)
    All my Exes live in Texas

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