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Thread: Cesar Millan "A Member of the Family"

  1. #31
    Senior Member Hunt'EmUp's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mitty View Post
    Pete, do you think that dog in the video could be rehabilitated? Would it ever be reliable around food?

    My older lab gets scary around food with other animals/pets. Blood has never been shed, and she has never been aggressive around people, but I don't trust her.
    I wasn't asked but, when did anyone need to be asked around here . IMO once a dog is not trustworthy on a particular aspect, your always going to assume the dog is untrustworthy, why chance it? Still I've never understood the obsession with people needing to mess with dogs and their food, or needing to feed dogs together unsupervised. In my experience ~75-80% of dog fights are mostly linked to food. The dog works hard, hasn't he earned the right not to be messed with while eating? Mine get fed in their kennels before they get let out. I can maybe understand it doing it once for puppies, I'm the owner I can take things away. Still feeding a dog takes ~5-10min, why do I need to mess with them? Why do I need to setup a situation where one dog can mess with another dogs food? Where I have to actively watch and get involved? Why do I need to cause this problem that must then be addressed?
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  2. #32
    Senior Member mitty's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hunt'EmUp View Post
    I wasn't asked but, when did anyone need to be asked around here . IMO once a dog is not trustworthy on a particular aspect, your always going to assume the dog is untrustworthy, why chance it? Still I've never understood the obsession with people needing to mess with dogs and their food, or needing to feed dogs together unsupervised. In my experience ~75-80% of dog fights are mostly linked to food. The dog works hard, hasn't he earned the right not to be messed with while eating? Mine get fed in their kennels before they get let out. I can maybe understand it doing it once for puppies, I'm the owner I can take things away. Still feeding a dog takes ~5-10min, why do I need to mess with them? Why do I need to setup a situation where one dog can mess with another dogs food? Where I have to actively watch and get involved? Why do I need to cause this problem that must then be addressed?
    My dogs are house pets. It seems as if one of us humans is always having a snack or doesn't put the food away, creating the potential for a food fight. Once the dog got bent out of shape because the cat sniffed a morsel of food that fell on the floor. Another time she went ballistic when our ancient beagle was sniffing the dirty dishes as I was loading them into the dishwasher. I think this dog has a loose screw.

    So I keep the food up to avoid a problem, but sometimes I wonder if I am just avoiding a problem that I could remedy if I knew how.
    Last edited by mitty; 04-19-2013 at 01:03 PM.
    Renee P

  3. #33
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    Never heard of the guy watched video. Been chewed up a few times. Former PSD, military trainer, dog needs a lead on strong collar , choke chain and take him into a airplane swing round and round, drop on ground, try it again if he persists. That type of food removal should start as a 12 week old! Guy in my opinion to get in dog's face with dog like posturing is kinda wacko. The worse bite you can have is from a dog that doesn't knowhow to bite, will leash climb and go for the face, not a trained bite dog going for appendage or a body hold. Geeze and people buy his material!
    Earl Dillow

  4. #34
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    Pete, do you think that food aggressive dog in the video could be rehabilitated? Would it ever be reliable around food?

    My older lab gets scary around food with other animals/pets. Blood has never been shed, and she has never been aggressive to people, but I don't trust her.
    Renee'
    Most dogs can be successfully rehabilitated , BUT,,, and thats a but with a capital B,,,most people can't be made to change their habit patterns and the way they deal with dogs.
    Dogs rank themselves per individual whether human or dog.. So lets say I get a dog to let me touch it and take its food away while eating or even leaving a room if I enter while its eating,,,that does not mean that the dog now does this when any one touches the dog or takes its food away. Only when I do it. So now the owners of the dog must learn to do what counters this ,, AND with a capital A,,,they must do it that way for a long time. Some people are great learners and take whats taught to heart. The majority doesn't or can't and in a few months the dog slides back to the way it was. Then when they try to do what was taught ,,the techniques or way of doing things have morphed so much because they haven't been doing it correctly from the start (due to an apathetic mind set) that they can't get it done.

    Its actually simple to change behavior and thinking patterns in a dog,,,people can be a major pain in the arse.
    Some people are very successful in the long run and many are not because of the human variable.

    Earl
    I disagree with most of what you wrote. Am I allowed to say that to an Icon of the retriever sports. (smile emoticon insert)

    Pete
    John 5 :30
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    mark 16:9 -- So then after the lord had spoken unto them,he was received up in heaven, and sat on the right hand of God
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  5. #35
    Administrator Chris Atkinson's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Paul "Happy" Gilmore View Post
    Like some dog trainers, he makes a lot of money off peoples lack of common sense. Almost seems criminal to come in and act like a hero when the people have a dog they've raised like a canary. Almost every situation he's in on his show is with dogs which have zero boundaries. He does anything and it makes him look good.

    It's like this;

    Lab owner has a dog who doesn't return with a bumper. Owner chases lab all over the backyard and it's become a game. Half-sense retriever person goes to back yard, puts a rope on the dog and has 6 successful retrievers in a row. Now you're a "Retriever Whisperer" in the owners eyes.
    There are plenty of programs that simply show John Q. Public some basic exposure to common sense. For example: diet/weight loss/exercise programs. They are not rocket science. They are organized depictions of the basics. Eat right and exercise to be healthy or healthier. Money saving and retirement programs - really not a whole lot of rocket science, just basics explained to the public.

    If Cesar has helped educate the general public to walk their dog and show the dog some limits and train consistently and patiently, that's a good thing. If only a fraction of the public took some of his stuff to heart, maybe we'd have fewer dogs in shelters and pounds.


    Quote Originally Posted by Criquetpas View Post
    Never heard of the guy watched video. Been chewed up a few times. Former PSD, military trainer, dog needs a lead on strong collar , choke chain and take him into a airplane swing round and round, drop on ground, try it again if he persists. That type of food removal should start as a 12 week old! Guy in my opinion to get in dog's face with dog like posturing is kinda wacko. The worse bite you can have is from a dog that doesn't knowhow to bite, will leash climb and go for the face, not a trained bite dog going for appendage or a body hold. Geeze and people buy his material!
    Hi Earl, I think it is tough to judge Cesar's program based upon the video clips shown. He had a television series with many episides that showed some common-sense basic obedience kinds of stuff. It was surely loaded with edits and such. But it helped show the general public some basic exposure to the notion of not letting a puppy overtake the human home - don't let the dog grow into the ruler of the house.
    "Determining and applying the criteria for when and when not to use correction is the essence of the art of dog training. I make a distinction between a mistake and a lack of effort." - Mike Lardy - Volume I "After Collar Conditioning"

  6. #36
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    I think Bora needs to make a video on how to use a rope with a dog. He'd be "Rope Commander"...probably make millions on A&E

  7. #37
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    Exactly. I fees my dogs around each other from time but I know which two will growl if approached by another dog. They always eat alone. It's a pretty simple problem to avoid IMO.
    Quote Originally Posted by Hunt'EmUp View Post
    I wasn't asked but, when did anyone need to be asked around here . IMO once a dog is not trustworthy on a particular aspect, your always going to assume the dog is untrustworthy, why chance it? Still I've never understood the obsession with people needing to mess with dogs and their food, or needing to feed dogs together unsupervised. In my experience ~75-80% of dog fights are mostly linked to food. The dog works hard, hasn't he earned the right not to be messed with while eating? Mine get fed in their kennels before they get let out. I can maybe understand it doing it once for puppies, I'm the owner I can take things away. Still feeding a dog takes ~5-10min, why do I need to mess with them? Why do I need to setup a situation where one dog can mess with another dogs food? Where I have to actively watch and get involved? Why do I need to cause this problem that must then be addressed?

  8. #38
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    I gotta chime in and defend Cesar - I really admire what he does, and hey, if he can make a living at it more power to him. If you watch enough of the old "Dog Whisperer" episodes you will see him work with a wide variety of dogs and their issues - shy timid dogs to very aggressive. Dogs DO respond very well to his approach, much of which is common sense (which too many dog owners lack!). It can be hard for those of us who TRAIN our dogs to relate, as Cesar claims he does NOT train the dogs but trains their humans. Our dogs, being trained from a young age generally don't develop major behavior issues. But the average pet dog does not have that advantage. I suspect Cesar has saved a good many dogs from being 'dumped' over the years, and that is a good thing.

  9. #39
    Senior Member mitty's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pete View Post
    Renee'
    Most dogs can be successfully rehabilitated , BUT,,, and thats a but with a capital B,,,most people can't be made to change their habit patterns and the way they deal with dogs.
    Dogs rank themselves per individual whether human or dog.. So lets say I get a dog to let me touch it and take its food away while eating or even leaving a room if I enter while its eating,,,that does not mean that the dog now does this when any one touches the dog or takes its food away. Only when I do it. So now the owners of the dog must learn to do what counters this ,, AND with a capital A,,,they must do it that way for a long time. Some people are great learners and take whats taught to heart. The majority doesn't or can't and in a few months the dog slides back to the way it was. Then when they try to do what was taught ,,the techniques or way of doing things have morphed so much because they haven't been doing it correctly from the start (due to an apathetic mind set) that they can't get it done.

    Its actually simple to change behavior and thinking patterns in a dog,,,people can be a major pain in the arse.
    Some people are very successful in the long run and many are not because of the human variable.

    Earl
    I disagree with most of what you wrote. Am I allowed to say that to an Icon of the retriever sports. (smile emoticon insert)

    Pete
    Thanks, Pete.

    Even if the owners get the dog to back down, what's gonna happen when it is around other people? That is why most people have dogs, to hang out with them. Pet dogs are always around other people. And the people are clueless. One day someone will not be paying attention, and the baby will walk by the dog holding a hotdog and bam! Dog goes ballistic. Scares the crap out of me.

    I guess I think that labrador retrievers aren't supposed to be like that.
    Renee P

  10. #40
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    Ok,Ok, Chris and Pete I did A generalization of watching single few minute video, made a shot from the hip statement on the basis of watching a person get in a posturing, face close to a growling aggressive dog and got bit, hand and groin area. I apologize, but, still think for a moment the guy who got bit shown in the video for that moment was a wacko.
    Whew what a mouthful! I maybe wrong as I haven't seen his otherwise brilliant reviews by some. Retrievers that don!'t bite are much easier for the ikon to digest. Plus I was bored and waiting to go to meet my co-judge for Saturdays hunt test to do our set-ups.
    Earl Dillow

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