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Thread: Master National Retriever Club Proposed Amendment

  1. #121
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    Quote Originally Posted by LabskeBill View Post
    Greetings: All of these posts are good. However, the regionals, split Pro/Am, preliminary, raise scores, raise number of qualifications etc have been proposed in the past. And in the past all were voted on at the MN annual meetings. Many many clubs had pros serve as their delegates. The pros will not vote for something that will deminish their pay check. Not anti pro but the sport will never be a true "amateur" sport until all the delegates are amateurs with amateur interests.
    I love my Pro's, I love the work they all do, I love the fact they help people make the most of their animals. The problem at any and every event is this and it hurts folks to say it or admit it. When a truck with 15 dogs shows up at a test, a volunteer run, non-profit event they only bring themselves to run their dogs. When 15 dogs show up, one in each car, in a single crate, 15 volunteers usually open the car door.(well, maybe 5 out of 15 )

    I see all pro's try to help out when they have time but, lets face it, they don't and shouldn't. They are being paid to focus on running the dog at the end of the lead. Not shoot fliers, marshall, re-bird, run a winger, deliver lunches, move stakes, pack trailers and/or cook judges dinners.

    Unless the sport somehow forces the owners into participating, the growth will cause rapid fee increases to cover hiring all paid workers and this will turn into a "for profit" adventure to keep the sport alive.

  2. #122
    Senior Member Good Dogs's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Paul "Happy" Gilmore View Post
    I love my Pro's, I love the work they all do, I love the fact they help people make the most of their animals. The problem at any and every event is this and it hurts folks to say it or admit it. When a truck with 15 dogs shows up at a test, a volunteer run, non-profit event they only bring themselves to run their dogs. When 15 dogs show up, one in each car, in a single crate, 15 volunteers usually open the car door.(well, maybe 5 out of 15 )

    I see all pro's try to help out when they have time but, lets face it, they don't and shouldn't. They are being paid to focus on running the dog at the end of the lead. Not shoot fliers, marshall, re-bird, run a winger, deliver lunches, move stakes, pack trailers and/or cook judges dinners.

    Unless the sport somehow forces the owners into participating, the growth will cause rapid fee increases to cover hiring all paid workers and this will turn into a "for profit" adventure to keep the sport alive.
    Well said.
    I'd add as well that nowhere in the MNRC Mission Statement is there a reference to "best of the best." If the MNRC wants to make that it's operating mission it can. But it will require a wholesale change in the rules as well as the operating statements of the MNRC. Much as the Grand has its own set of rules and an expected pass rate of 20% +/-. That's not something I'm endorsing simply suggesting it's the logical outcome of a "best of the best" mission.
    If the numbers are too big, cut the numbers. Limit dogs per handler. Or make it a OH event. Put a cap on the total and draw lots for entries. Require all qualifying passes to by OH. Require 6 of 8 to Q. None are perfect. All will raise howls by some. But nothing in life is perfect. Pick a pathway and stick with it.

  3. #123
    Senior Member Gun_Dog2002's Avatar
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    The phrase is cream of the crop, not best of the best.

    /paul
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  4. #124
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    Quote Originally Posted by lbbuckler View Post
    That's what the Master National's position is. They cite that there are huge logistic challenges to putting on a 700+ dog event. If the grounds are available, then there aren't enough hotels & restaurants and vice versa. Their letter also states that "the average age of the entered dogs has moved downward.....These youngsters typically go out in the 1st or 2nd series, as they are not yet mature or seasoned enough to handle big tests and the pressure of a 9 day event". I've never ran a Master National so I don't know if the argument holds true or not. I do believe that holding a 700+ dog event has its logistical challenges, but I'm just not sure this is the best way to address that problem.
    I think it is a pretty good idea, the young dogs that is has taken 10 or 12 passes to get their master title for the most part are not ready for the Master Nationals .

  5. #125
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scott Shafer View Post
    the only TRUE way to bring these numbers down to a manageable amount is for each region to hold a pre-national qualifier event over a 3 day weekend....IMO.... this would benefit everyone....here you can ween out most of the dogs that just Squeaked through the qualifing system....then the MN event would TRULY be a test of the very best and most deserving dogs...... just my .02
    Sounds good initially but by adding another step like that would it be fair to the handlers who have females that may be in heat that week end and not be able to compete after fulfilling all the other requirements?

  6. #126
    Senior Member DarrinGreene's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jacduck View Post
    "and between the falls to simulate a lively cripple." Only way to do that is have a live duck running around. Then how would the handler put the dog on it since my experience in the field has me usually not knowing where the crip went after I have shot the triple.

    Like the ideas however unrealistic it seems on first read. I will think on it a bit.

    I like #2 but #3 has the "field blind" layout? in play and we know how that is perceived by some.

    Hunting situation? How many handlers hunt? Of the 15 or 20 handlers I am around the most there are 3 of us that hunt at all.

    Maybe the way to limit the MNHT numbers is to open it only to owners who have three years straight of hunting licenses in their possession. To include those owners who put their dogs on a pro truck for the duration.
    You don't need a live duck running around, just a 150 yard blind through three <100 yard retrieves.

    If putting your hunting dog in a "field blind" is an issue you need to train more.

    I'm reading Paul talking about people being penciled out after completing the work, where out this way it seems the complaints I hear are about unrealistic tests and shitty dog work getting by...

    Don't know. I like a straightforward test, especially if I have to judge it, but this is what I have been hearing from participants.
    Last edited by DarrinGreene; 04-21-2013 at 05:47 AM.
    Darrin Greene

  7. #127
    Senior Member zeus3925's Avatar
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    I have a dog that ran 3 MNHTs and passed one of those. I also own another MH dog, but I plan to run him in the FT game instead. Over the ten years I have played the game, the dogs have gotten to be very good and the training has advanced as well. The pedigrees of most dogs running are looking more and more like the roster in the FT game. I know something must be done to reduce the ridiculously high numbers in the MNHT, but as time progresses I am afraid we will still have to go back again over this issue repeatedly. Certainly, the high entry numbers are a deterrent to me from vying for another return to the MNHT.

    PS As a suggestion to put out there for discussion: How about requiring a MNHT participant be also QAA. I have heard it argued that any MH dog could be competitive in a qualy.
    Last edited by zeus3925; 04-21-2013 at 09:47 AM.
    Zeus

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  8. #128
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    Quote Originally Posted by helencalif View Post
    Clubs who are member clubs of the MNRC vote. Several wrinkles for voting ... clubs who meet only once a year or once in a quarter may not have a general meeting prior to the MNRC's June 15 deadline for the vote on this revised amendment.

    I belong to 3 clubs in No. California who will not be having a general meeting prior to the June 15 deadline.
    Is a general membership Mtg required to obtain / vote the clubs position on "this" matter ?

    Wouldn't the duly elected Officers/BOD be allowed to represent their constituants wishes and vote on this matter in a specail mtg ?

    john
    "i guess the old saying 'those of us that think we know everything annoy those of you that does' " --bobbyb 9/13/06

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  9. #129
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    How many of you that are having heart burn with the Master National actually participate. Seems to me "lets change because it's successful" is a game people play . Whats is wrong with large entries??? Last year was a great event. The MN is a seperate organization so play the game if you want or stay with the weekend HT and have FUN.
    Ed Wojciechowski

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  10. #130
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thomas D View Post
    Don't you think that somewhere along the way amateur handlers have gotten shoved to the back of the Master National bus?
    Tom , my friend , there is a difference between the back of the bus and under the bus........can of worms big enough for both of us regards..................LOL
    SEMPER FI . FROM MY COLD , DEAD HANDS .

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