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Thread: pointing labs

  1. #21

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    Thanks for all the help.

  2. #22
    Member Liv2Hnt's Avatar
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    Don't get discouraged. Julies pointing lab book referenced on here is a good start. If you look back at the development of the Labrador "retriever", as one poster mentioned, this is a retrieving breed. The dog was developed to retrieve, it doesn't fall in to the AKC definition of a pointing breed, but what is often failed in this observation is that the AKC also doesn't recognize it as a flushing/spaniel breed. The Labrador was not developed with breeding selection for pointing or flushing upland game. If you do some research, you will find that the modern labs development included pointing dogs. This genetic pool results in Labradors who are natural pointers. As retreivers and neither flushers or pointers, who is to say that they can't be either? Many try, but these versatile pointing Labradors go to field, HT and trials every year and demonstrate their capabilities.

    From a training perspective, the difference with the PL is that their retrieve drive is exponentially higher than the average pointing dog(EP, GSP, Setter, Etc). Thus if early bird introduction work is done incorrectly, you can very easily train the point out of them as they learn to catch birds. IMO, the higher natural stickiness involved in some of these other breeds is related to their lower retrieve drive. They still require steadiness training, especially through the steady to wing and shot finished stage for an upland pointing dog. However, with early bird introduction and a balanced approach, you can maintain an extremely high retrieve drive retriever that also naturally points upland game.

    You can use any pointing dog training program, you just have to balance that with your retriever work. Lightly planted, strong flying upland birds for young dog introduction is a key component of training any dog that has a natural inclination to point upland game. The dog has to naturally point, then transition work through steadiness on point, through flush and up to a fully finished steady to wing and shot would get you to finished upland dog.

    Im an amateur trainer, my dogs naturally point upland game. Its in their genetics, I work to maximize their potential and enjoy running them in both retriever and upland events. On the off chance that the genetics aren't there in my next lab and he/she is a flusher then thats how well hunt.
    Amateur Trainer/ Handler
    HRCH 4 X GMPR McNally's Right Stuff Ridley MH

  3. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Liv2Hnt View Post
    Don't get discouraged. Julies pointing lab book referenced on here is a good start. If you look back at the development of the Labrador "retriever", as one poster mentioned, this is a retrieving breed. The dog was developed to retrieve, it doesn't fall in to the AKC definition of a pointing breed, but what is often failed in this observation is that the AKC also doesn't recognize it as a flushing/spaniel breed. The Labrador was not developed with breeding selection for pointing or flushing upland game. If you do some research, you will find that the modern labs development included pointing dogs. This genetic pool results in Labradors who are natural pointers. As retreivers and neither flushers or pointers, who is to say that they can't be either? Many try, but these versatile pointing Labradors go to field, HT and trials every year and demonstrate their capabilities.

    From a training perspective, the difference with the PL is that their retrieve drive is exponentially higher than the average pointing dog(EP, GSP, Setter, Etc). Thus if early bird introduction work is done incorrectly, you can very easily train the point out of them as they learn to catch birds. IMO, the higher natural stickiness involved in some of these other breeds is related to their lower retrieve drive. They still require steadiness training, especially through the steady to wing and shot finished stage for an upland pointing dog. However, with early bird introduction and a balanced approach, you can maintain an extremely high retrieve drive retriever that also naturally points upland game.

    You can use any pointing dog training program, you just have to balance that with your retriever work. Lightly planted, strong flying upland birds for young dog introduction is a key component of training any dog that has a natural inclination to point upland game. The dog has to naturally point, then transition work through steadiness on point, through flush and up to a fully finished steady to wing and shot would get you to finished upland dog.

    Im an amateur trainer, my dogs naturally point upland game. Its in their genetics, I work to maximize their potential and enjoy running them in both retriever and upland events. On the off chance that the genetics aren't there in my next lab and he/she is a flusher then thats how well hunt.
    If the AKC doesn't recognize them as a flushing breed, why are they allowing them to run in Spaniel tests?

  4. #24
    Senior Member Rainmaker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mngundog View Post
    If the AKC doesn't recognize them as a flushing breed, why are they allowing them to run in Spaniel tests?
    Probably the same reason some pointing & spaniel breeds are being allowed to run AKC retriever HT now.
    Kim Pfister, Rainmaker Labs

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