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Thread: Speaking of Global Warming

  1. #61
    Senior Member huntinman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Henry V View Post
    Fixed it for you.....
    Right, you and Al Gore.
    Bill Davis

  2. #62

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    Yep I like the cardinal sitings. Try checking your almighty wikipedia to see the cardinal's range. Just because you didn't see them doesn't mean they were not there. Records are set almost every year at sometime or another at some part of this country or another since we began measuring such things.Could someone make up their minds what all this co2 will do. Warm or cool or just give us random climate changes that we have bee seeing forever. Just because we measure temp changes and we measure co2 increase does not necessarily mean one is a cause for the other. There might be some other reason for our weather change than manmade co2. But record temps and record rainfall and record snowfall and record this and that will continue just as always.

  3. #63
    Senior Member road kill's Avatar
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    Stan b & Elvis

  4. #64
    Senior Member Gerry Clinchy's Avatar
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    [QUOTE][You are right that the largest contributors to CO2 emissions are the ones with the largest need to reduce. I do not agree with you on the direct cause and effect relationship on the economy. For example, the US is in the process of moving to natural gas asa a larger component of our energy supply.

    Two points arise here: Yes, this is a smart way to transition from more highly polluting fuel to less polluting fuel. We can maintain the economy's growth, giving us time to deveop further innovations. However, while govt encouraged just such transition, now we are faced with whether we should pursue the methods available for extracting this fuel.

    China realizes the value of a transition fuel like NG ... so should we. Yet, right now our govt seems not to fully acknowledge the necessity and importance of "transition".

    We know that there are also negatives to some "green energy" as well. Wind farms cause some impact on bird populations; the noise from the turbines can be very disturbing to residents living too close to the farms. We still need "back-up" for times when the wind is insufficient.

    Humans are innovative. I think the US is particularly so. However, innovation requires investment with the hope of return on the investment ... not just govt dabbling in lab experiments. For those who "oversold" Solyndra, bankruptcy didn't help anyone very much. I would also venture that the private investors who lost money were at least partly enticed with the fact that the govt loans would mean success for the company & perhaps they relied too much on that v. hard examination of the facts regarding the potential of the company.

    This is good for carbon emissions and will not affect the economy (unless you are in coal country). You forgot to mention that China is also the number one country expanding their renewable energy system with wind and solar. An argument could be made that they are viewing coal as a shorter term solution and renewables for the longer term.

    Then if the US/Canada start aggressively exporting this transition fuel, it will lower the price for same in other parts of the world as well, helping other countries to lower their pollution as well.

    All that oil being extracted from shale costs a lot more to recover in terms of dollars and energy invested per unit energy returned than the spigots in the middle east.

    I'd look for the balance ... using shale oil v. ME oil may be worth some increment in cost based on the instability of the ME. But that increase in cost should still be less than trying to depend on present technology for wind or solar energy sources. It would be a matter of balance.

    I am very much in favor of using solar. I have investigated it for my own home. Since I am semi-rural, my choices are electric heat (heat pump), oil, propane, or wood. The cost of solar is still way more than other alternatives. I would not live long enough to recoup the cost of solar. I did spring for a heat pump water heater which is rated to use 1/2 the energy of the conventional electric water heater that it replaced.



    /QUOTE]

    I would also agree that our energy future depends on balance of maintaining economic growth with the use of "transition" fuels like NG. China could not be developing its energy future without the "temporary" use of coal. Highly developed countries will not be able to develop an energy future without the "temporary" use of oil and NG. But I would not advocate govt central planning. That has never worked. China has become an economic "player" in the world by recanting "govt knows best."

    While the cost of oil has increased, it is not as expensive (yet) as using solar and wind energy. I also don't think we should ignore the efficiency of our "appliances". Oil home heating furnaces today are far more efficient and less "dirty" than old ones.

    I have modified my thinking in some regards. I mistakenly thought that we might have to direct oil fuel to cars, and heat homes with something else. Someone smarter than me was figuring out a way to make cars run on NG! The cars can travel to the strategically located "stations". Much less costly than extending NG delivery lines to low density living areas. Our cities are well suited to NG home heating, but our rural and semi-rural areas are not.
    Glad to see that you correctly point out that increasing energy costs would be a regressive system. Your post directly contradicts the case that several others have stated here that this is a scheme to redistribute wealth.

    I don't know if it's somebody's "scheme" to redistribute wealth, but the net result may be the same, whether intentional or an unanticipated consequence. I believe that the "experts" who are devising these ideas are out of touch with the population.

    Do ANY of those devising these energy plans lower their thermostats in winter & raise them in summer to save money? Do any of them do their own grocery shopping to see what has happened to food prices in the past few years? Aside from the fact that these two items are conveniently left out of the inflation index, the planners are among the top 5% of income-earners and insulated from the results of their planning. Just as Congress insulated itself from the ACA.

    A small example is Michelle Obama talking about eating more fresh fruits and vegetables. I am astounded at the cost of fresh produce! I doubt she has a clue about how difficult it is for the working poor can accommodate. Those working poor might now be a family of four earning $60K/year.


    Our food production system will need to adapt to any resulting energy related changes just as it has since the price of oil has doubled in the past 20 years. I think the system could benefit from changes to the status quo.
    Interesting that you mention food production. I recently read about how robots are being developed that can do the picking of many food products. That will reduce our "need" for illegal resident farm workers.

    Also, part of the food production evolution has also involved the development of "engineered" seeds. And there is already opposition to that as being bad for our health. I haven't studied that, so I don't know if it has merit. It seems, though, that for every innovation there is some group that will come up with a reason that the innovation is just the root of another problem.

    I'm not sure I think it fair to rate energy use per capita. Not our fault that China and India have such huge populations than the US (and MUCH more than Canada). (Maybe we ought to send Sandra Fluck over there for some speaking engagements?) When there are so many in China and India living in the same primitive conditions they did a century ago, it is unlikely that they would consume as much energy as a more industrialized society on a per capita basis. The sheer size of the population in those countries should keep their per capita usage low for a long time to come.
    Last edited by Gerry Clinchy; 05-20-2013 at 12:43 PM.
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  5. #65
    Senior Member swampcollielover's Avatar
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    Henry V, just curious...you seem to be real good at cut and pasting data and then telling us what it means...what qualifies you to read and understand this data? I smell a "low information" voter...

  6. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by swampcollielover View Post
    Henry V, just curious...you seem to be real good at cut and pasting data and then telling us what it means...what qualifies you to read and understand this data? I smell a "low information" voter...
    I smell a guy who makes his living doing this charade - Henry does know the "buzzphrases", but being typical of that breed, refuses to remove his blinders.
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  7. #67
    Senior Member Gerry Clinchy's Avatar
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    http://www.newsday.com/news/region-s...1.5346608?qr=1

    3 ft of snow Sat. & Sun. , on Whiteface Mountain in the NY Adirondack Mts. Stowe got 13.2 " on Sunday; most they have ever gotten this late in the year.
    G.Clinchy@gmail.com
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  8. #68
    Senior Member coachmo's Avatar
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    Are people still buying into the Global Warming ruse? Just wondering!

  9. #69
    Senior Member JDogger's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by coachmo View Post
    Are people still buying into the Global Warming ruse? Just wondering!
    I guess we'll just have to wait and see... some are buying into anything if it suits their purpose. Poopy regards, JD
    One cannot reason someone out of something they were not reasoned into. - Jonathan Swift

  10. #70
    Senior Member coachmo's Avatar
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    Like gore????

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