The RetrieverTraining.Net Forums The Retriever Academy
Total Retriever Training with Mike Lardy
Hawkeye Media Gunners Up Tritronics Outdoor Media
Page 1 of 6 123 ... LastLast
Results 1 to 10 of 53

Thread: Force to Pile Questions

  1. #1
    Junior Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2013
    Posts
    18

    Default Force to Pile Questions

    I Have a 9 month old chocolate lab he is very driven when retrieving marked bumpers but on his pile work he just trots along. He is collar conditioned and with a Tri Tronics exp 200 pro he is on a level 4. When I have him on a front sit and I cast him "back" he turns around and just trots. I have given him nicks immediately after the command back and in route to the pile. I have been Working on FTP for weeks now and he is just not progressing. I would like to see him really driving hard for the pile. He is force fetched collar conditioned and with fun bumpers really drives. I have tried level 4 low medium and high all levels I get good reactions but the very next cast without stimulation he goes back to just trotting to the pile. I feel I have followed FTP stimulation sequence fairly accurately but he just isn't "driving" for the pile on every cast. What would you do? He drives hard with stimulation but without stimulation goes back to trotting

  2. #2
    Senior Member Jon Hass's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Location
    Maysville, NC
    Posts
    180

    Default

    Keep working. Stay calm and give lots of praise. Pup understands pressure it sounds like. Praise for the behavior you want. Also with more confidence usually comes speed.
    "Some people spend an entire lifetime wondering if they made a difference. The Marines don't have that problem."
    PRESIDENT RONALD REAGAN, 1985

    HRCH Wag'in Codie Jo SH
    HRCH Mossbend's Remington Deluxe
    HRCH Double Barrel's Dust Cloud JH
    HR Doc's Heavy Artillery

  3. #3
    Senior Member Matthew J. Ries's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2012
    Location
    TX, USA
    Posts
    177

    Default

    Have you used frozen/dead birds on FTP? I know a session with birds randomly, puts gas to the fire for mine.
    Matthew Ries, Pharm.D.

    Poole's Matador's Maggie May (04/14/2012 - Present)
    Lacakota Super Magnum (02/20/2002 - 07/2010)

  4. #4
    Senior Member MooseGooser's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2003
    Location
    Colorado
    Posts
    7,293

    Default

    how far away is your pile?
    How long have you been working on pile work?

    When first starting, keep your pile very short.
    If he likes a fun bumper, throw one to the pile first, and let him retrieve it.. (mark the pile.)

    start at distances of feet,, not yards...
    It is far easier to spit on the work of others than it is to produce something better yourself.
    Brynmoors Prairie Sage JH ​(Sage) Just a dang fool huntin Dawg
    HRCH Calypso Seven Bales High SH (Bailey)
    HR Calypso Zoomin Loosies Mad Hader (Maddi) We loved you baby. R.I.P.
    FlatLanders Broken Pistol Ricochet SH (Flinch)


    My Christian Name is Michael Baker..
    I have gone by "Gooser" since I was a "gossling"

  5. #5
    Senior Member MooseGooser's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2003
    Location
    Colorado
    Posts
    7,293

    Default

    I started my sessions with a few fun bumpers to get the excitement up.

    Once the dog was retrieving well,, I sat the dog at frontfinish, and then threw one of those fun bumpers over his head to the location of the back pile of the future..

    I repeted this for a few sessions, till the dog looked forward to running from that front finish to the back pile location...

    Like I said, at first keep it short,, and a LOT of praise when he does it right..

    No Force, till you get him running to that back pile consistently...

    gooser
    It is far easier to spit on the work of others than it is to produce something better yourself.
    Brynmoors Prairie Sage JH ​(Sage) Just a dang fool huntin Dawg
    HRCH Calypso Seven Bales High SH (Bailey)
    HR Calypso Zoomin Loosies Mad Hader (Maddi) We loved you baby. R.I.P.
    FlatLanders Broken Pistol Ricochet SH (Flinch)


    My Christian Name is Michael Baker..
    I have gone by "Gooser" since I was a "gossling"

  6. #6
    Junior Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2013
    Posts
    18

    Default

    I have not used dead or frozen birds just dokkens and hallmark canvas bumpers i started at 5 feet away from the pile and have moved back to about 30 feet and that has been where we have stayed for some time. When i throw a fun bumper (non-steady non-sitting) i throw it randomly and he drives hard. as soon as i throw that same bumper with him sitting and requiring steadyness he goes back to his trotting ways. I always praise heavily when i use force and he is doing what i want but it seems no matter how much praise i use the E-collar stimulation gets him into high gear but is also startling him so the next cast he is fearfull of failure. I have heard move onto T work because i can work on his overs and once he knows over i can "force back" I am following lardy's flow chart and am in a training group locally but i feel like he will never get that drive like when he is marking birds.

  7. #7
    Senior Member MooseGooser's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2003
    Location
    Colorado
    Posts
    7,293

    Default

    Do you feel your FF was complete?

    How thourough do you feel it was?
    Good desire, and compulsion to get the bumper in his mouth during walking fetch, stick fetch?
    Did he "dive" for the bumper when commanded "fetch"?

    Gooser
    It is far easier to spit on the work of others than it is to produce something better yourself.
    Brynmoors Prairie Sage JH ​(Sage) Just a dang fool huntin Dawg
    HRCH Calypso Seven Bales High SH (Bailey)
    HR Calypso Zoomin Loosies Mad Hader (Maddi) We loved you baby. R.I.P.
    FlatLanders Broken Pistol Ricochet SH (Flinch)


    My Christian Name is Michael Baker..
    I have gone by "Gooser" since I was a "gossling"

  8. #8
    Junior Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2013
    Posts
    18

    Default

    With FF he was a natural I went through FF as a formality but he always grabbed the FF dowel willingly. I would say "fetch" followed by an ear pinch and immediately he would start going for it. following that would be without an ear pinch and he still would go for it. He never refused so i had a hard time training him since he was always willing to go for it. once i started doing walking fetch he did great and from the day i started training him i would say he has actually dropped his bumper maybe 20 times total. and when told to "get it" or "fetch" or "back" he always would willingly go get it. so since he always fetched willingly i never got that fast response associated with FF. I suppose we could go back to FF but i don't see it necessary. What do you think?

  9. #9
    Junior Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2013
    Posts
    18

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Labhunter907 View Post
    With FF he was a natural I went through FF as a formality but he always grabbed the FF dowel willingly. I would say "fetch" followed by an ear pinch and immediately he would start going for it. following that would be without an ear pinch and he still would go for it. He never refused so i had a hard time training him since he was always willing to go for it. once i started doing walking fetch he did great and from the day i started training him i would say he has actually dropped his bumper maybe 20 times total. and when told to "get it" or "fetch" or "back" he always would willingly go get it. so since he always fetched willingly i never got that fast response associated with FF. I suppose we could go back to FF but i don't see it necessary. What do you think?
    I would also like to add he never went through stick fetch because i heard from many that it was an old outdated training tool replaced by the variable intensity E-collar. I could give that a try if you guys think it would help.

  10. #10
    Senior Member Wayne Nutt's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    Ft. Worth, TX
    Posts
    4,107

    Default

    I think you may have skipped some valuable steps: walking ff, stick fetch, simple casting, cc, ecollar fetch.
    Which one of these have you done before starting FTP? You indicated that you are following Lardy's flow chart but do you have the dvds?

    I guess everyone has opinions but Mike Lardy still advocates stick fetch and I still use it also.
    Wayne Nutt
    Go Nutts with dog training

    HRCH Patton's Parker Co. Shadow "Shadow"
    HRCH Clineline Hijacker "Jack"
    HRCH Marks a Lot Midnight Hudson, SH "Hudson"-retired
    Castile Creek's Rawhide, SH "Rowdy"

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •