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Thread: FT setups versus HRC setups

  1. #21
    Senior Member MooseGooser's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by copterdoc View Post
    Regardless of what the rules say about lines, routes, channels or corridors, your dog can't avoid the entire test and still pass.
    At least, I wouldn't expect to.

    They put the blind where they put the blind for a reason. The stuff that exists between where you send the dog from, and where the blind is planted, is there for a reason. It's a test.

    You also can't just line the dog 10 degrees downwind, kick it off, and let it handle itself to the blind once it gets a nose full of it.

    Now that said, what does this mean to you?
    Of course a dog cat avoid the test!!

    But,, even if the "Line " of the blind is over a point, across a log,, a dog can maybe go around it, as long as the handeler HANDELS the dog back to a direction that will put hin in good position to get the bird.... Its about HANDELING,, and the dog taking casts that were given The last sentence in the quote above from the rules says it all...

    They cant require dog has to be on that point,, jump THAT log,, run that path.... Its a situation where you are being JUDGED as to the abilty of your hunting dog that day,, and if the Judge believes he would Hunt with that animal.. Its just that simple,, and I believe there are those that dont like that and want to make it more than the founders and their personal beliefs THINK it SHOULD be!!

    Lokk this isnt what the discussion was about...

    All I was saying is a handler and dog that has run HRC tests,, and is USE to the latitude the blinds GENERALLY give them,, they are in for a surprise,, if and when they start trying to run Qual blinds...

    They will have to run a route... they will have to get on and off a point,, they will have to go ove over that log ect ect...




    I speak from experience....

    I cant tell you the number of times I have been yelled at to handel, when I thought the dog was fine..... Fine from my past experiences...


    Gooser
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    Brynmoors Prairie Sage JH ​(Sage) Just a dang fool huntin Dawg
    HRCH Calypso Seven Bales High SH (Bailey)
    HR Calypso Zoomin Loosies Mad Hader (Maddi) We loved you baby. R.I.P.
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  2. #22
    Senior Member MooseGooser's Avatar
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    You judge controll by does the dog sit when whistled?
    Does he take the cast that he is given?

    If the dog takes a poor initial line,, does the handeler correct it,, and Generally get theh dog back on track?

    If the dog avoids cover ,, does the handler correct that, and get the dog back on track (generally) to the direction the blind is at???
    If the dog goes around the cover,, but the handler gets the dog stopped quickly, and gives a cast that puts the dog in the direction (generally) of where the bird is,, and the dog takes that cast,, all is good...

    ITS ABOUT JUDGES JUDGING,,, ANNNNNNNNNNNDDDDDDDDDDDD

    IS THE DOG MAKING PROGRESS???

    Is the dog taking the cast given????

    Simple!!
    Last edited by MooseGooser; 04-22-2013 at 08:22 PM.
    It is far easier to spit on the work of others than it is to produce something better yourself.
    Brynmoors Prairie Sage JH ​(Sage) Just a dang fool huntin Dawg
    HRCH Calypso Seven Bales High SH (Bailey)
    HR Calypso Zoomin Loosies Mad Hader (Maddi) We loved you baby. R.I.P.
    FlatLanders Broken Pistol Ricochet SH (Flinch)


    My Christian Name is Michael Baker..
    I have gone by "Gooser" since I was a "gossling"

  3. #23
    Senior Member Ted Shih's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mary Lynn Metras View Post
    I am only referring to HRC the way they set up their blinds in relation to the marks is this good for a FT dog to run those setups once in awhile or are there serious differences that a FTer should be considering. And vice versa HRC dogs running FT setups. What is any are the pitfalls for the dogs? I am not referring to who is better or anything like that b/c both good venues in my mind.... just trying to see what could be some problems that might arise when cross training? What are your opinions?
    Mary Lynn

    I don't know what a HRC blind is. If you gave me more information, I could give you a better answer

    ​Ted
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  4. #24
    Senior Member MooseGooser's Avatar
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    Would you hunt with a dog that did those things????
    It is far easier to spit on the work of others than it is to produce something better yourself.
    Brynmoors Prairie Sage JH ​(Sage) Just a dang fool huntin Dawg
    HRCH Calypso Seven Bales High SH (Bailey)
    HR Calypso Zoomin Loosies Mad Hader (Maddi) We loved you baby. R.I.P.
    FlatLanders Broken Pistol Ricochet SH (Flinch)


    My Christian Name is Michael Baker..
    I have gone by "Gooser" since I was a "gossling"

  5. #25
    Senior Member Todd Caswell's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ted Shih View Post
    Mary Lynn

    I don't know what a HRC blind is. If you gave me more information, I could give you a better answer

    ​Ted
    Ted,

    In a HRC test there are only two "series" a land and a water series, at the finished level a short triple is shot with a blind, the blind is almost always run inside of the marks, under the ark, through the fall ect. Sometimes it's a hot blind.

    I train for both and don't see a problem, I think it makes a well rounded dog, especialy if you hunt the dog..

    In training even if it's a short 100 yard HRC blind that has factors, treat it like a FT blind and challenge it.

  6. #26
    Senior Member copterdoc's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MooseGooser View Post
    Would you hunt with a dog that did those things????
    Of course.

    But, I don't look at a Hunt Test, as a fake hunt. I look at it as a real test.

    If there's a log on the line to the blind, that's part of the test.
    If there's a corner of water, or a slice of cover, I consider those to be questions asked by the test.

    If I just let the dog run around them, and then handle after the question has been "skipped", I would not expect any Judge to pass my dog.

    Not because my dog failed to run a predefined route or channel.
    But rather, because I just let my dog avoid the questions by not answering them.

  7. #27
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    MaryLynn we run and train HRC FT and CKC HT. Today we did white coat stuff an ABC drill and then an in line triple with a blind off the back of one of the guns. Tomorrow we will do HRC and CKC HT type set ups. The differnce with the blind is basically distance and the "stuff" you put into them. In field trials the line to the blind is tight and this is where I run into problems in HT tests. I expect the same standards on the blinds and will pick my dog up if I don't feel that she has given me the line or take the casts I want, at a hunt test. I then watch performances that are off line and with mutiple refusals get a ribbon. I just haven't wrapped my head around what I expect for a master blind and what the judges are willing to accept. We have our HRCH. The pro that taught me some of things I know always stress 'there is a beginning, middle and end to a blind and you better make sure you work on all three". He also would chew your ears off if he caught you rerunning a blind. Move the blind and use the same concept.

  8. #28
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    [QUOTE=Ted Shih;1096728]Mary Lynn

    I don't know what a HRC blind is. If you gave me more information, I could give you a better answer

    ​Ted[/QUOTE

    They run a shorter version of the old qual set ups triple with a non punch blind through the set-up in HRC. I think it would be difficult to run many HRC tests unless there were more punch birds and much longer blinds. The bottom would be taken out for field trials, which is the case even in AKC hunt tests. My opinion Ted is a little jaded though as I run the two venues with already all-age dogs QAA and above? That's why many have difficulty when they train for the HRC then try to run the qual in my opinion.
    Earl Dillow

  9. #29
    Senior Member Mary Lynn Metras's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MooseGooser View Post
    Of course a dog cat avoid the test!!

    But,, even if the "Line " of the blind is over a point, across a log,, a dog can maybe go around it, as long as the handeler HANDELS the dog back to a direction that will put hin in good position to get the bird.... Its about HANDELING,, and the dog taking casts that were given The last sentence in the quote above from the rules says it all...

    They cant require dog has to be on that point,, jump THAT log,, run that path.... Its a situation where you are being JUDGED as to the abilty of your hunting dog that day,, and if the Judge believes he would Hunt with that animal.. Its just that simple,, and I believe there are those that dont like that and want to make it more than the founders and their personal beliefs THINK it SHOULD be!!

    Lokk this isnt what the discussion was about...

    All I was saying is a handler and dog that has run HRC tests,, and is USE to the latitude the blinds GENERALLY give them,, they are in for a surprise,, if and when they start trying to run Qual blinds...

    They will have to run a route... they will have to get on and off a point,, they will have to go ove over that log ect ect...




    I speak from experience....

    I cant tell you the number of times I have been yelled at to handel, when I thought the dog was fine..... Fine from my past experiences...


    Gooser
    Gooser I agree with running the blind in HRC is very different than FT. There is a different expectation of handling in FT. Hope I said that right. In HRC you do have to stay with in the line they don't want you way off line. And I have to say my little guy has had to learn angle backs later in life after HRC rather than at the start and that has made things a little harder for adjustment. IMHO
    HRCH Scaupgetters Tarnation QAA

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  10. #30
    Senior Member Ted Shih's Avatar
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    As a general rule, I think you train above where you compete. So, I would run longer, tighter, more complicated blinds than I would expect to see in my desired venue. Based on what Earl has told me, I would train on Qual setups - without any concern about its impact on HRC blinds
    Competition does not build character - It reveals it.

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