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Thread: FT setups versus HRC setups

  1. #31
    Senior Member MooseGooser's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by copterdoc View Post
    Of course.

    But, I don't look at a Hunt Test, as a fake hunt. I look at it as a real test.

    If there's a log on the line to the blind, that's part of the test.
    If there's a corner of water, or a slice of cover, I consider those to be questions asked by the test.

    If I just let the dog run around them, and then handle after the question has been "skipped", I would not expect any Judge to pass my dog.

    Not because my dog failed to run a predefined route or channel.
    But rather, because I just let my dog avoid the questions by not answering them.
    Who said anything about "Letting" the dog run around them?? you try and keep the factors in play,, but in the end its the judgement of the judges that are held to the STANDARD of the level you are running,, and that standard is quite clear they donr require a predetermined route.,, or Line.. or channel... The judge CANT require you to get that sliver of water,, he may LIKE to see that,, but he has to jusge wether he would hunt with that dog who didnt quite get that factor,, but brought dinner back... If the dog is WAY "OFF LINE" the judge wil prollt determine that the dog is disturbing the hunt through its ineffieciency, and probably many whistles to get the beast back to making progress TOWRDS the bird....


    BUT<<<<<<< There is no "LINE"


    You copdoc are describing YOUR standards!!!! would you apply them if you Judged ,, and NOT the Standards??? have YOU ATTENDED A HRC SEMINAR???

    Gooser
    It is far easier to spit on the work of others than it is to produce something better yourself.
    Brynmoors Prairie Sage JH ​(Sage) Just a dang fool huntin Dawg
    HRCH Calypso Seven Bales High SH (Bailey)
    HR Calypso Zoomin Loosies Mad Hader (Maddi) We loved you baby. R.I.P.
    FlatLanders Broken Pistol Ricochet SH (Flinch)


    My Christian Name is Michael Baker..
    I have gone by "Gooser" since I was a "gossling"

  2. #32
    Senior Member copterdoc's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MooseGooser View Post
    Who said anything about "Letting" the dog run around them?? you try and keep the factors in play,, but in the end its the judgement of the judges that are held to the STANDARD of the level you are running,, and that standard is quite clear they donr require a predetermined route.,, or Line.. or channel... The judge CANT require you to get that sliver of water,, he may LIKE to see that,, but he has to jusge wether he would hunt with that dog who didnt quite get that factor,, but brought dinner back... If the dog is WAY "OFF LINE" the judge wil prollt determine that the dog is disturbing the hunt through its ineffieciency, and probably many whistles to get the beast back to making progress TOWRDS the bird....


    BUT<<<<<<< There is no "LINE"


    You copdoc are describing YOUR standards!!!! would you apply them if you Judged ,, and NOT the Standards??? have YOU ATTENDED A HRC SEMINAR???

    Gooser
    Whoa, whoa, whoa!
    Chill out bro!

    Pour a drink, make a nice hot bubble bath, settle in and think about what I said.

    And please, for the love of God, no pitchers this time!


  3. #33
    Senior Member Todd Caswell's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MooseGooser View Post
    Who said anything about "Letting" the dog run around them?? you try and keep the factors in play,, but in the end its the judgement of the judges that are held to the STANDARD of the level you are running,, and that standard is quite clear they donr require a predetermined route.,, or Line.. or channel... The judge CANT require you to get that sliver of water,, he may LIKE to see that,, but he has to jusge wether he would hunt with that dog who didnt quite get that factor,, but brought dinner back... If the dog is WAY "OFF LINE" the judge wil prollt determine that the dog is disturbing the hunt through its ineffieciency, and probably many whistles to get the beast back to making progress TOWRDS the bird....


    BUT<<<<<<< There is no "LINE"


    You copdoc are describing YOUR standards!!!! would you apply them if you Judged ,, and NOT the Standards??? have YOU ATTENDED A HRC SEMINAR???

    Gooser
    You see alot of OVERS at a HRC test

  4. #34
    Senior Member Mary Lynn Metras's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Todd Caswell View Post
    Ted,

    In a HRC test there are only two "series" a land and a water series, at the finished level a short triple is shot with a blind, the blind is almost always run inside of the marks, under the ark, through the fall ect. Sometimes it's a hot blind.

    I train for both and don't see a problem, I think it makes a well rounded dog, especialy if you hunt the dog..

    In training even if it's a short 100 yard HRC blind that has factors, treat it like a FT blind and challenge it.
    Ted this is a good explanation Anytime I have run HRC the blind is hot. The judges generally ask to challenge the blind meaning run as close as you can to the line. They don't want you ping ponging all over. They do not give specific points to touch or go through, just run straight. These blinds are short, but could get complicated if the dog does not handle well. Yes you can use lots of overs. IMO
    HRCH Scaupgetters Tarnation QAA
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  5. #35
    Senior Member MooseGooser's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mary Lynn Metras View Post
    Gooser I agree with running the blind in HRC is very different than FT. There is a different expectation of handling in FT. Hope I said that right. In HRC you do have to stay with in the line they don't want you way off line. And I have to say my little guy has had to learn angle backs later in life after HRC rather than at the start and that has made things a little harder for adjustment. IMHO
    OK Fine!!!

    How do you determine what that Line is??? How do you determine the corridor?
    Hold two fingers up/.. the "V fingers?

    Or hold the thumb and pinkie finger up??

    IF YOU WERE JUDGING TO THE STANDARD,, and not what you personally like to see,, how would you determine the corridor ??

    No corridor,, no line no predefined route right per rule...

    Gooser
    It is far easier to spit on the work of others than it is to produce something better yourself.
    Brynmoors Prairie Sage JH ​(Sage) Just a dang fool huntin Dawg
    HRCH Calypso Seven Bales High SH (Bailey)
    HR Calypso Zoomin Loosies Mad Hader (Maddi) We loved you baby. R.I.P.
    FlatLanders Broken Pistol Ricochet SH (Flinch)


    My Christian Name is Michael Baker..
    I have gone by "Gooser" since I was a "gossling"

  6. #36
    Senior Member John Robinson's Avatar
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    Gooser, if this is an argument about judging standards, I agree with you, judges should judge to the written standard and leave AKC or field trial standards out of it. However, as a contestant-handler, I would train to a higher standard just to be sure I'm covered in case I run under judges who might not hold to the rule as close as you do. I also like it when my dog runs a pleasing blind that removes all judgment from the judges. I know for a fact that the actual blinds I encounter when hunting are much easier than what we train on every day.

    John

  7. #37
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    Who cares what the standard is you should be training at a higher level then you are training for whatever event you anticipate to run. Blinds are much like the game of golf, the less strokes you have on the straightest line to the green, through or over the hazards that are in your way gets the best score. Coversely the more overs you give are like slices or hooks the more you have to take to get back on course/fairway. Thus the higher score or poorer blind. In principal judges should set up blinds, where, if lined properly in principal will get you straight to the blind. It really doesn't matter if it's a 75 yard blind or a 375 yard blind. So if you stand there as a technocrat with book in hand looking for the minimal standard then you just marching place and never progress. Angle backs and half azz overs or weak handles are just that, wishing yourself to the blind. I call it Mississippi riverboat gambling.
    Last edited by Criquetpas; 04-22-2013 at 10:36 PM.
    Earl Dillow

  8. #38
    Senior Member huntinman's Avatar
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    Accepting mediocrity in blinds because that's all the standard asks for, means that's all you are likely to get when you want more from the dog.
    Bill Davis

  9. #39
    Senior Member copterdoc's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by huntinman View Post
    Accepting mediocrity in blinds because that's all the standard asks for, means that's all you are likely to get when you want more from the dog.
    And it also demands that the Judge's interpretation of the standard, matches yours.

    That's a whole lot of wishing.

  10. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ted Shih View Post
    Mary Lynn

    I don't know what a HRC blind is. If you gave me more information, I could give you a better answer

    ​Ted
    The stuff you must do coming to the line and at the line will be the challenge, not what's out in the field in my opinion.

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