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Thread: FT setups versus HRC setups

  1. #61
    Senior Member MooseGooser's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hunt'EmUp View Post
    I always find this the funniest quote; any judge worth his salt doesn't need to give you a predefined route for your dog to take, he just sets up a blind that if you don't go straight at it and stay on route you lose your dog, or have major issues, that you might never recover from. You get off-line you get in trouble, they also put in factors to tempt. your dog off-line, so the blind cannot be lined and you have to handle. A properly setup blind if you don't challenged the line or your pretty much out, unfortunately a lot of blinds are not properly setup .
    The seminar also teaches Judges when giving reccomendations for blind running requirements, to just say
    "cast your dog toward the blind""

    They will judge control from that response!

    It wiil be that particular judges opinion as to how he interprets the rules...

    But from what I have seen and experienced,, you will not be dropped, if your dog doesnt get on a specific point, or jump over a log. If you keep your dog heading in the direction of where the blind is planted,, and handel when he is not going in that direction,, and the dog corrects and takes the cast,, you will meet the standard.. If he miises a log, or point that may be on that dead straight line to the bird from the handlers line by a few feet,, I dont think the dog should be dropped in HRC..

    I would as a Judge ask myself,, "would I hunt with this dog?"

    THAT would be my determining factor..

    Gooser
    Last edited by MooseGooser; 04-23-2013 at 12:25 PM.
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  2. #62
    Senior Member MooseGooser's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hunt'EmUp View Post
    I always find this the funniest quote; any judge worth his salt doesn't need to give you a predefined route for your dog to take, he just sets up a blind that if you don't go straight at it and stay on route you lose your dog, or have major issues, that you might never recover from. You get off-line you get in trouble, they also put in factors to tempt. your dog off-line, so the blind cannot be lined and you have to handle. A properly setup blind if you don't challenged the line or your pretty much out, unfortunately a lot of blinds are not properly setup .
    Show me in the running rules where it states your opinion to the first part of the bolden sentence.

    and for the second part,, do you then feel, that a LOT of finished judges dont know how to properly set up a blind?

    just curious..

    Gooser
    It is far easier to spit on the work of others than it is to produce something better yourself.
    Brynmoors Prairie Sage JH ​(Sage) Just a dang fool huntin Dawg
    HRCH Calypso Seven Bales High SH (Bailey)
    HR Calypso Zoomin Loosies Mad Hader (Maddi) We loved you baby. R.I.P.
    FlatLanders Broken Pistol Ricochet (Flinch)


    My Christian Name is Michael Baker..
    I have gone by "Gooser" since I was a "gossling"

  3. #63
    Senior Member Hunt'EmUp's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MooseGooser View Post
    Show me in the running rules where it states your opinion to the first part of the bolden sentence.

    and for the second part,, do you then feel, that a LOT of finished judges dont know how to properly set up a blind?

    just curious..

    Gooser
    Not in the running rules, entirely opinion based on experience, I have seen some good recoveries, but many more with a bunch of whistles and refusals There are many good judges that put a lot of thought into their blinds, there are some that just put a ribbon out because the rules say we have to run a blind, then they have no idea why all the dogs are lining it because the wind is blowing the scent right to the line, or because drag back is allowing every dog to follow a trail back to it. Nor do they know why all the dogs are being pulled this way or that. I'm especially fond of hot blinds that "will never affect the marks" until the wind changes and every dog has to handle off of it.

    As a judge-trainer etc. I consider it a failure if a good percentage of dogs can line any blind I setup, heck 2-4 dogs and I get cranky, I should've done a better job . Blinds are about team work and control, how can I see any of that if I setup a blind that people can easily line? A good part of Team-work is the ability to work and recover from factors, how can I see that if I don't setup a blind with factors? I hate having to explain to someone why they're out when in their opinion they lined it with one "over" cast. Thus I setup a blind where there are consequences for being off-line, you let your dog get to far out he runs into a factor, ditch, tulley's, scent cone, bush, whoops now we can see if you can recover

    I feel (purely opinion) the A LOT of people do not know how to properly setup a blind. Not finished judges, not HRC, not AKC, not NAHRA. Blinds are setup willie-nillie in all venues, until you get one of those judges that will kick your butt with it, one of those judges where you never have to ask "where's the line to the blind?" because it's obvious where you don't want your dog to be. FT judges are pretty good at kicking your butt with it, almost like they do it on purpose .
    Last edited by Hunt'EmUp; 04-23-2013 at 03:22 PM.
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  4. #64
    Senior Member Ted Shih's Avatar
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    I find that debates about the appropriate route, corridor, line, etc. are not especially enlightening in the absence of pictures or diagrams.
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  5. #65
    Senior Member Mary Lynn Metras's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by paul young View Post
    Thanks Mike.

    A lot of the people posting on this thread seem to not understand what we're actually judging at an HRC test. A finished hunting dog does NOT need to be running blinds that would get a call-back in a Qualifying stake in order to pass the test.

    I have judged a lot of hunt tests and I have to say that there are few things less pleasing than to watch than a handler hacking a dog down a corridor 10' wide for no reason other than they feel they need to "challenge the line to the blind". It's simply no fun to watch and they are usually making a pretty good hunting dog look bad while doing it. Of course they get a passing score from me, but in a lot of cases they could have done much better had they blown the whistle less

    The original question in this thread was about differences between HRC hunts and Field Trials. My experience is limited to having trained trained and handled 2 of my own dogs to Q wins and judging 6 minor stakes, so I am by no means an expert. But ince the OP already had a QAA dog under her belt, I figured she was inquiring about all-age blinds. If that was what she wanted to know, my answer is that she needs to train on all-age blinds and marking concepts and set-ups and forget about HRC hunts. There really is no comparison. MOST (NOT ALL....) HRCH dogs would not even complete the usual all-age blinds in weekend field trials, let alone do them with precision. Heck, look at the callbacks at an Am, open or even Qual; there are darned few dogs still in after the blinds, and those dogs are trained daily on this kind of test.-Paul
    Paul my original post was referring to once in awhile running with HRC fellows. I had wanted to know if there were issues or problems one could see by training HRC when training for FT especially their blinds in relation to the marks. I seriously doubt a steady diet of HRC training those shorter distances would be advantageous for FT dog in training over the long haul.
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  6. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mary Lynn Metras View Post
    Paul my original post was referring to once in awhile running with HRC fellows. I had wanted to know if there were issues or problems one could see by training HRC when training for FT especially their blinds in relation to the marks. I seriously doubt a steady diet of HRC training those shorter distances would be advantageous for FT dog in training over the long haul.
    Thanks for the clarification. Doing those setups now and then won't hurt a thing, in my opinion. In fact, if check down birds and inverted triples are a weakness of a dog, they may be beneficial. You'll certainly get the chance to use the "easy" cue. Enjoy!-Paul
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  7. #67
    Senior Member pat addis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MooseGooser View Post
    What do you challenge if they state there is "No Line" to the blind,, there cant be a designated route? a Channel???

    Define what you mean by challenge... I think I know,, but the venue you are discussing doesnt require a Line to a blind,, but rather absolute "progress" towards it...

    Gooser
    while there can be no official line most judges want a pretty tight line to the blind, if you don't challenge the blind and fail they won't tell you your line was off they just tell you that you failed due lack of control. or I have been told we can't tell you the line to the blind but a straight line is the shortest distance between 2 points

  8. #68
    Senior Member John Robinson's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MooseGooser View Post
    I do apologise for not being able to express my thoughts well..

    I know what I want to say,, but after I type it , and post it,, well,, its like somebody else posted their thoughts
    That made me laugh out loud Gooser, I feel the same way sometimes...

  9. #69
    Senior Member Mary Lynn Metras's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by John Robinson View Post
    That made me laugh out loud Gooser, I feel the same way sometimes...
    Me too. I have a hard time explaining sometimes!!
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