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Thread: FT setups versus HRC setups

  1. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mary Lynn Metras View Post
    Gooser Curious about your statement re blinds. HRC challenges or supposed to challenge the blinds but without the distance of FT. HRC tries to run the blinds straight? or maybe I could say micromanage the blinds to keep on line??

    I have always insisted on a straight return and know it is important even with marks.

    I do have to ask what sort of blinds would FT people rerun? When we train for HRC they do rerun blinds and I can understand if these are cheating types of blinds but there are some I wonder about .
    The reason for my question re FT setups versus HRC setup is the rerun of blinds in a field used numerous times for setups. We reran the blind twice after doing the setup. I sensed confusion in my dog as if he felt all the marks were not picked up especially if I asked him to rerun a blind again. Maybe that is just his inexperience at 3 1/2 yo. Maybe some others have thoughts on this. I don't want to do any injustice by rerunning when it may prove to be folly for the dog's training.

    I see the dog in your signature is QAA? Did you buy him "finished"?

  2. #12
    Senior Member MooseGooser's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mary Lynn Metras View Post
    Gooser Curious about your statement re blinds. HRC challenges or supposed to challenge the blinds but without the distance of FT. HRC tries to run the blinds straight? or maybe I could say micromanage the blinds to keep on line??

    I have always insisted on a straight return and know it is important even with marks.

    I do have to ask what sort of blinds would FT people rerun? When we train for HRC they do rerun blinds and I can understand if these are cheating types of blinds but there are some I wonder about .
    The reason for my question re FT setups versus HRC setup is the rerun of blinds in a field used numerous times for setups. We reran the blind twice after doing the setup. I sensed confusion in my dog as if he felt all the marks were not picked up especially if I asked him to rerun a blind again. Maybe that is just his inexperience at 3 1/2 yo. Maybe some others have thoughts on this. I don't want to do any injustice by rerunning when it may prove to be folly for the dog's training.
    What do you challenge if they state there is "No Line" to the blind,, there cant be a designated route? a Channel???

    Define what you mean by challenge... I think I know,, but the venue you are discussing doesnt require a Line to a blind,, but rather absolute "progress" towards it...

    Gooser
    It is far easier to spit on the work of others than it is to produce something better yourself.
    Brynmoors Prairie Sage JH ​(Sage) Just a dang fool huntin Dawg
    HRCH Calypso Seven Bales High SH (Bailey)
    HR Calypso Zoomin Loosies Mad Hader (Maddi) We loved you baby. R.I.P.
    FlatLanders Broken Pistol Ricochet (Flinch)


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  3. #13
    Senior Member Mary Lynn Metras's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Paul "Happy" Gilmore View Post
    I see the dog in your signature is QAA? Did you buy him "finished"?
    I trained my baby Tar myself. Believe it or not and we are working our way through understanding this. Mostly train alone unfortunately.
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  4. #14
    Senior Member MooseGooser's Avatar
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    How do you keep a dog "ON LINE" if you are running a blind across a river with current that drifts the dog downstream?

    Member these tests replicate a "Hunt"

    A river dog is a very different animal compared to many...

    Gooser
    It is far easier to spit on the work of others than it is to produce something better yourself.
    Brynmoors Prairie Sage JH ​(Sage) Just a dang fool huntin Dawg
    HRCH Calypso Seven Bales High SH (Bailey)
    HR Calypso Zoomin Loosies Mad Hader (Maddi) We loved you baby. R.I.P.
    FlatLanders Broken Pistol Ricochet (Flinch)


    My Christian Name is Michael Baker..
    I have gone by "Gooser" since I was a "gossling"

  5. #15
    Senior Member John Robinson's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mary Lynn Metras View Post
    Gooser Curious about your statement re blinds. HRC challenges or supposed to challenge the blinds but without the distance of FT. HRC tries to run the blinds straight? or maybe I could say micromanage the blinds to keep on line??

    I have always insisted on a straight return and know it is important even with marks.

    I do have to ask what sort of blinds would FT people rerun? When we train for HRC they do rerun blinds and I can understand if these are cheating types of blinds but there are some I wonder about .
    The reason for my question re FT setups versus HRC setup is the rerun of blinds in a field used numerous times for setups. We reran the blind twice after doing the setup. I sensed confusion in my dog as if he felt all the marks were not picked up especially if I asked him to rerun a blind again. Maybe that is just his inexperience at 3 1/2 yo. Maybe some others have thoughts on this. I don't want to do any injustice by rerunning when it may prove to be folly for the dog's training.
    Mary Lynn, by "rerun", are you talking about repeating the same blind? In field trial training beyond the transition level we have cold blinds, which we rarely repeat and blind drills which may be repeated a lot. Some drills use a pattern blind, either marked or unmarked, that the dog gets used to running from many different angles and distances, then there are Chinese and Tune up drills, where we run around the edge of a pond. Kind of hard to describe without drawing it, maybe somebody can help here. Though it's not often, we do repeat cold blinds if the dog had an issue with a certain part of it, better to test the same concept on another similar blind however.
    John

  6. #16
    Senior Member Mary Lynn Metras's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MooseGooser View Post
    How do you keep a dog "ON LINE" if you are running a blind across a river with current that drifts the dog downstream?

    Member these tests replicate a "Hunt"

    A river dog is a very different animal compared to many...

    Gooser
    Gooser I understand what you are saying. Thanks.
    HRCH Scaupgetters Tarnation QAA
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  7. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by MooseGooser View Post
    What do you challenge if they state there is "No Line" to the blind,, there cant be a designated route? a Channel???

    Define what you mean by challenge... I think I know,, but the venue you are discussing doesnt require a Line to a blind,, but rather absolute "progress" towards it...

    Gooser
    Regardless of what the rules say about lines, routes, channels or corridors, your dog can't avoid the entire test and still pass.
    At least, I wouldn't expect to.

    They put the blind where they put the blind for a reason. The stuff that exists between where you send the dog from, and where the blind is planted, is there for a reason. It's a test.

    You also can't just line the dog 10 degrees downwind, kick it off, and let it handle itself to the blind once it gets a nose full of it.

    Now that said, what does this mean to you?
    Lining the blind is not required. The Finished Hunting Retriever should demonstrate the ability to take an initial line toward the blind and a willingness and ability to respond to the commands from the Handler. The Finished Hunting Retriever must stay under control and pick up the bird quickly and efficiently. The judge will not require the retriever to run a predefined route or channel.

  8. #18
    Senior Member Mary Lynn Metras's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by copterdoc View Post
    Regardless of what the rules say about lines, routes, channels or corridors, your dog can't avoid the entire test and still pass.
    At least, I wouldn't expect to.

    They put the blind where they put the blind for a reason. The stuff that exists between where you send the dog from, and where the blind is planted, is there for a reason. It's a test.

    You also can't just line the dog 10 degrees downwind, kick it off, and let it handle itself to the blind once it gets a nose full of it.

    Now that said, what does this mean to you?
    So why do some HRC judges say challenge the blind?
    HRCH Scaupgetters Tarnation QAA
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  9. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mary Lynn Metras View Post
    So why do some HRC judges say challenge the blind?
    How else do you test and Judge control?

    They don't Judge the line for the sake of the line.
    It's not ABOUT the line.

    It's about what the dog's line says about the dog being under control.

    It ain't no thang, to just let a dog go where it wants to go.
    That's not a demonstration of control.
    That's not taking a test.

    If you are taking a test, you can't leave all the answer blocks blank. That's what it means, when you don't "challenge the line".

  10. #20
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    Never judged a HRC made two HRCH finished dogs. Great people, excellent hunters, march in place in this area anyway with cookie cutter tests, go bird long, two shorter birds, blind through the marks. Then there is the minute bird hits the ground dog can be sent, no immediate inspection of birds by judges, hang em up, carry away when your done talk to dog entire time, move dog around , ready, silent throws, shoot from the line, short distances, no flyers, etc, etc.
    I have run AKC field trials, AKC Hunt tests, HRC hunt tests, titled dogs at highest level in all three venues. I have never trained except with field trial set-ups for all venues including wearing white coats. Oh yeah my dogs are all hunted. It's the same old, same old, different venues, different standards, different window-dressing, apples/oranges, different titles, train with what you feel comfortable in and have fun! It's all about the dogs.
    Earl Dillow

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