The RetrieverTraining.Net Forums The Retriever Academy
Total Retriever Training with Mike Lardy
Hawkeye Media Gunners Up Tritronics Outdoor Media
Page 6 of 7 FirstFirst ... 4567 LastLast
Results 51 to 60 of 69

Thread: FT setups versus HRC setups

  1. #51
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2003
    Location
    Oakdale,ct.
    Posts
    2,887

    Default

    All,

    What is the purpose of an HRC seasoned or finished hunt test?-Paul
    there's no good reason to fatten up a retriever.

  2. #52
    Senior Member John Robinson's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Location
    Bigfork, Montana
    Posts
    3,462

    Default

    [QUOTE=MooseGooser;1096949]I was at a Local Finished Hrc test..
    It was the Water series.. It was run on a river..
    There was a triple thrown. all marks across the river channel...

    One of the marks that were thrown, required the dog to swim across a piece of the river channel that had pretty sustantil current to it. The mark was placed in a back eddy,, and the mark would stay where placed,, but the dog would be swept downstream waypast where the mark fell.. Most dogs marked it well,, and really wasnt that big of deal,, but,,, the RETURN was!! You didnt want tha dog to return to you straight back the way he went out.. he would either get in the current and get stuck in place trying to swim against it,, or,, he would get swept farther downstream, where when he did get a chance to get back out,, the route back to you on the handlers side of the river was a real bitch for the dog to navigate... Most all handlers, after their dog picked up that mark,, whistle sat the dog,, and handled the dog from that spot , onto sand bar,, then back upstreamon dry sand,, to a point where they would then call them in,, and the current, once they got back in the river,, would drift them back to a point in front of the line..

    Ablind was run acroos that river current also, with the blinds palcement on the far bank.. Dogs drifted WAY "off line" on that blind!!
    You had to show Finished controll to get the dog back upstream on land to the bird, once the dog beached.. The controll was judged as to how well the dog took those casts and whistles.. You could NOT blow a whistle on the dogs way out to the blind while in current,, cause if the dog stopped,, and treadedwater,,, he would just be swept father downstream off line!! You just had to let the dog drift til he got out,, then Handel...
    Very common senario when you hunt rivers..

    Very common senario for the type of Hunting you see in region 13..

    How can you judge a "LINE"???[/QUOTE]

    Very realistic hunting scenario, much better than many of the contrived test I have run.

    You ask your question about judging the line as if people are arguing with you that it is important to judge the line. Nobody on this thread is saying that. We are all saying, and you seemed to agree with your second to last post, that owning a well trained dog (you used Ted's FC-AFC as an example), training to a high standard would make passing HRC blinds easy. I imagine Ted's dog or any well trained dog would have no problem doing well on that blind, and that any judge worth his salt would know that holding a perfect line against that current was impossible.

  3. #53
    Senior Member MooseGooser's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2003
    Location
    Colorado
    Posts
    7,411

    Default

    [QUOTE=John Robinson;1096958]
    Quote Originally Posted by MooseGooser View Post
    I was at a Local Finished Hrc test..
    It was the Water series.. It was run on a river..
    There was a triple thrown. all marks across the river channel...

    One of the marks that were thrown, required the dog to swim across a piece of the river channel that had pretty sustantil current to it. The mark was placed in a back eddy,, and the mark would stay where placed,, but the dog would be swept downstream waypast where the mark fell.. Most dogs marked it well,, and really wasnt that big of deal,, but,,, the RETURN was!! You didnt want tha dog to return to you straight back the way he went out.. he would either get in the current and get stuck in place trying to swim against it,, or,, he would get swept farther downstream, where when he did get a chance to get back out,, the route back to you on the handlers side of the river was a real bitch for the dog to navigate... Most all handlers, after their dog picked up that mark,, whistle sat the dog,, and handled the dog from that spot , onto sand bar,, then back upstreamon dry sand,, to a point where they would then call them in,, and the current, once they got back in the river,, would drift them back to a point in front of the line..

    Ablind was run acroos that river current also, with the blinds palcement on the far bank.. Dogs drifted WAY "off line" on that blind!!
    You had to show Finished controll to get the dog back upstream on land to the bird, once the dog beached.. The controll was judged as to how well the dog took those casts and whistles.. You could NOT blow a whistle on the dogs way out to the blind while in current,, cause if the dog stopped,, and treadedwater,,, he would just be swept father downstream off line!! You just had to let the dog drift til he got out,, then Handel...
    Very common senario when you hunt rivers..

    Very common senario for the type of Hunting you see in region 13..

    How can you judge a "LINE"???[/QUOTE]

    Very realistic hunting scenario, much better than many of the contrived test I have run.

    You ask your question about judging the line as if people are arguing with you that it is important to judge the line. Nobody on this thread is saying that. We are all saying, and you seemed to agree with your second to last post, that owning a well trained dog (you used Ted's FC-AFC as an example), training to a high standard would make passing HRC blinds easy. I imagine Ted's dog or any well trained dog would have no problem doing well on that blind, and that any judge worth his salt would know that holding a perfect line against that current was impossible.
    I agree,, but I wonder how many guys that are use to keeping the dog running STRAIGHT on line,, would get into trouble trying to do that, in a situation they wernt use to seeing??
    Again,,,, Mindset...
    Gooser
    It is far easier to spit on the work of others than it is to produce something better yourself.
    Brynmoors Prairie Sage JH ​(Sage) Just a dang fool huntin Dawg
    HRCH Calypso Seven Bales High SH (Bailey)
    HR Calypso Zoomin Loosies Mad Hader (Maddi) We loved you baby. R.I.P.
    FlatLanders Broken Pistol Ricochet SH (Flinch)


    My Christian Name is Michael Baker..
    I have gone by "Gooser" since I was a "gossling"

  4. #54
    Senior Member MooseGooser's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2003
    Location
    Colorado
    Posts
    7,411

    Default

    I do apologise for not being able to express my thoughts well..

    I know what I want to say,, but after I type it , and post it,, well,, its like somebody else posted their thoughts
    It is far easier to spit on the work of others than it is to produce something better yourself.
    Brynmoors Prairie Sage JH ​(Sage) Just a dang fool huntin Dawg
    HRCH Calypso Seven Bales High SH (Bailey)
    HR Calypso Zoomin Loosies Mad Hader (Maddi) We loved you baby. R.I.P.
    FlatLanders Broken Pistol Ricochet SH (Flinch)


    My Christian Name is Michael Baker..
    I have gone by "Gooser" since I was a "gossling"

  5. #55
    Senior Member Mary Lynn Metras's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Location
    Watford, ONT
    Posts
    3,831

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by John Robinson View Post
    Why didn't you say this in the beginning? We were arguing against you when we should have been agreeing whole heartedly with you.

    Regarding that HRC rule, Kevin Norman's point is a good one. I remember running an early NAHRA Intermediate with my first dog Kimo. I had been training with field trailers and Kimo ran pretty good blinds. We lined the water blind, it was pretty easy, a square entry into the water over the tip of an island about thirty yards out and another ten yards to the bird. Most in the gallery clapped but some seriously asked, "yeah, but can he handle?". I reported the story and comments back to my training group when I got home, and some old timer told me about how they used to make you handle your dog on a dog leg to avoid some obstacle just to insure the dog could handle as well as line.

    John
    I have heard that comment before "Can he handle?"
    HRCH Scaupgetters Tarnation QAA

    HR Blackie 2 CGN, WCI

    Metras's Hashtag Mickey

  6. #56
    Senior Member copterdoc's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    NW IL
    Posts
    2,536

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Mary Lynn Metras View Post
    I have heard that comment before "Can he handle?"
    I think that it's normally said with tongue firmly planted in cheek.

    When a dog lines a blind, and I mean actually lines it through a bunch of factors, that's a dog that has proven it can "handle".
    It only took one cast. And it carried it all the way to the stake.

  7. #57
    Senior Member MooseGooser's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2003
    Location
    Colorado
    Posts
    7,411

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by paul young View Post
    All,

    What is the purpose of an HRC seasoned or finished hunt test?-Paul
    Quote Originally Posted by paul young View Post
    All,

    What is the purpose of an HRC seasoned or finished hunt test?-Paul
    Per the rule book..


    Seasoned Hunt test

    Purpose and Philosophy:
    This hunt test is for seasoned Hunting retrievers and Handlers. It duplicates actual Hunting conditions throughout the local area.Judges will look for style, and natural ability and evidence the the seasoned hunting retriever exhibit’s a reasonable degree of control. These hunting tests have longer retrieves on both water and land than Started tests. The Seasoned Hunting Retriever must be steady on line and retrieve to hand. The Seasoned Hunting Retriever in these tests usually has a couple of seasons of hunting experience, and more training…


    Finished Hunt tests.
    Purpose and philosophy:
    This Hunt test is for Finished hunting retrievers. It duplicates actual hunting conditions throughout the country. The successful completion of these tests leads to the qualification of a hunting retriever foir the title of Hunting retriever Champion. (Hrch). To pass these hunting tests the Finished Hunting Retriever must accomplish the tasks required with both style and accuracy. The Finished Hunting Retriever must respond promptly to to EITHER voice or whistle commands and remain steady and under control at all times. The Finished Hunting retriever should be a PLEASURE TO HUNT WITH under any conditions..
    Last edited by MooseGooser; 04-23-2013 at 11:44 AM.
    It is far easier to spit on the work of others than it is to produce something better yourself.
    Brynmoors Prairie Sage JH ​(Sage) Just a dang fool huntin Dawg
    HRCH Calypso Seven Bales High SH (Bailey)
    HR Calypso Zoomin Loosies Mad Hader (Maddi) We loved you baby. R.I.P.
    FlatLanders Broken Pistol Ricochet SH (Flinch)


    My Christian Name is Michael Baker..
    I have gone by "Gooser" since I was a "gossling"

  8. #58
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2003
    Location
    Oakdale,ct.
    Posts
    2,887

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by MooseGooser View Post
    Per the rule book..


    Seasoned Hunt test

    Purpose and Philosophy:
    This hunt test is for seasoned Hunting retrievers and Handlers. It duplicates actual Hunting conditions throughout the local area.Judges will look for style, and natural ability and evidence the the seasoned hunting retriever exhibit’s a reasonable degree of control. These hunting tests have longer retrieves on both water and land than Started tests. The Seasoned Hunting Retriever must be steady on line and retrieve to hand. The Seasoned Hunting Retriever in these tests usually has a couple of seasons of hunting experience, and more training…


    Finished Hunt tests.
    Purpose and philosophy:
    This Hunt test is for Finished hunting retrievers. It duplicates actual hunting conditions throughout the country. The successful completion of these tests leads to the qualification of a hunting retriever foir the title of Hunting retriever Champion. (Hrch). To pass these hunting tests the Finished Hunting Retriever must accomplish the tasks required with both style and accuracy. The Finished Hunting Retriever must respond promptly to to EITHER voice or whistle commands and remain steady and under control at all times. The Finished Hunting retriever should be a PLEASURE TO HUNT WITH under any conditions..
    Thanks Mike.

    A lot of the people posting on this thread seem to not understand what we're actually judging at an HRC test. A finished hunting dog does NOT need to be running blinds that would get a call-back in a Qualifying stake in order to pass the test.

    I have judged a lot of hunt tests and I have to say that there are few things less pleasing than to watch than a handler hacking a dog down a corridor 10' wide for no reason other than they feel they need to "challenge the line to the blind". It's simply no fun to watch and they are usually making a pretty good hunting dog look bad while doing it. Of course they get a passing score from me, but in a lot of cases they could have done much better had they blown the whistle less

    The original question in this thread was about differences between HRC hunts and Field Trials. My experience is limited to having trained trained and handled 2 of my own dogs to Q wins and judging 6 minor stakes, so I am by no means an expert. But ince the OP already had a QAA dog under her belt, I figured she was inquiring about all-age blinds. If that was what she wanted to know, my answer is that she needs to train on all-age blinds and marking concepts and set-ups and forget about HRC hunts. There really is no comparison. MOST (NOT ALL....) HRCH dogs would not even complete the usual all-age blinds in weekend field trials, let alone do them with precision. Heck, look at the callbacks at an Am, open or even Qual; there are darned few dogs still in after the blinds, and those dogs are trained daily on this kind of test.-Paul
    there's no good reason to fatten up a retriever.

  9. #59
    Senior Member Hunt'EmUp's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Posts
    2,049

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by MooseGooser View Post
    Per the seminar

    The judge will not require the retriever to run predefined route or channel,,
    .
    I always find this the funniest quote; any judge worth his salt doesn't need to give you a predefined route for your dog to take, he just sets up a blind that if you don't go straight at it and stay on route you lose your dog, or have major issues, that you might never recover from. You get off-line you get in trouble, they also put in factors to tempt. your dog off-line, so the blind cannot be lined and you have to handle. A properly setup blind if you don't challenged the line or your pretty much out, unfortunately a lot of blinds are not properly setup .
    "They's Just DAWGS"
    "Hunting is a skill to be learned whether you do it early or late it still needs to be learned"
    "I train dogs, Not papers"

    GMRH-I HRCH Quick MH (most importantly Duck/Upland Enthusiast) Rip. July-2014
    MHR HRCH Lakota MH (most importantly Upland/Duck Enthusiast)
    HR Storm.. the Pup (Beginning Upland & Waterfowl Enthusiast)

  10. #60
    Senior Member Howard N's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2003
    Location
    Anchorage, AK
    Posts
    7,687

    Default

    there are few things less pleasing than to watch than a handler hacking a dog down a corridor 10' wide for no reason other than they feel they need to "challenge the line to the blind".
    Some dogs naturally ping pong more than others. Some dogs have not been trained to take a straight back.
    Howard Niemi

    You really gotta be careful about how high a pedestal you put your method, your accomplishments, your dog on. There's usually someone who's done more, somewhere. And they may have used a different method than you did! Chris Atkinson 2013

    get your dog out and TRAIN! caryalsobrook 2013

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •