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Thread: FT wagon wheel distances

  1. #1
    Senior Member Socks's Avatar
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    Default FT wagon wheel distances

    For the folks who train for FT's what are the distances you use for your 8 and 16 leg wagon wheels? Also, do you do them in the same spot similar to pattern blinds?
    Joe Dickerson

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    Senior Member Howard N's Avatar
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    My wagon wheel distances are:

    The close tier is a comfortable bumper toss, call it 10-12 yards.

    The 2nd tier is a long throw, call it ~20 yards.
    Howard Niemi

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    Senior Member Evan's Avatar
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    8-bumper WW is about 14-16 feet in diameter. When it becomes two-tiered 16-bumper drill, the second ring is about 15-20 yards. Most people run WW drills too far and defeat its purposes. That initial ring of 8 white bumpers is to provide visual targets to aid in positioning and turning the dog to set up at the handler's direction. When they're placed so far away that the dog doesn't instantly pick them out, you visual target is lost.



    Evan
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    Senior Member Wayne Nutt's Avatar
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    X3. Same as Howard and Evan.
    Wayne Nutt
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    Senior Member JS's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Evan View Post
    8-bumper WW is about 14-16 feet in diameter. When it becomes two-tiered 16-bumper drill, the second ring is about 15-20 yards. Most people run WW drills too far and defeat its purposes. That initial ring of 8 white bumpers is to provide visual targets to aid in positioning and turning the dog to set up at the handler's direction. When they're placed so far away that the dog doesn't instantly pick them out, you visual target is lost.



    Evan
    Feet?? Or yards?

    14 foot diameter would put the bumpers only about 7 or 8 feet from the center.

    JS
    “Don’t wave your phony patriotism in MY face! If you really love America, open your wallet and hire an American kid to build what you buy. Think of all our problems that might solve.” Doug Fraser (paraphrased) 1980

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    Senior Member Evan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JS View Post
    Feet?? Or yards?

    14 foot diameter would put the bumpers only about 7 or 8 feet from the center.

    JS
    FEET. When you turn your dog 45 degrees right or left, his eyes should meet with an obvious white target to lock on. This aids in the very important, basic skill of setting the dog up for a new line. That is what WW lining drills (the 8-bumper version) are for. They don't really become a lining drill until that is sharp, and a 16-bumper drill is taught. Pretty hard to set a dog up for multiple tight lines when he won't move and lock with you. That's one of the reasons why WWLD makes such a great spring drill.

    Evan
    "Prepare your dog in such a manner that the work he is normally called upon to do under-whelms him, not overwhelms him." ~ Evan Graham

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    Senior Member Socks's Avatar
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    I ask because a couple of years ago at a seminar for FT training the pro siad that you could go up to 32 wagon wheel and add things like birds at one tier to add dificulty. With 16 to 32 I see that you'd have to extend out the distances so that the angle isn't so tight that it's would be impossible for the dog to pick the right one. Or is that the point to where your dog has to be so precise to pick up the right one? For the record I put 4 white ones out aprroximately15 yards at the base plates and then 4 orange between the bases at 25 yards.
    Joe Dickerson

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  8. #8
    Senior Member Evan's Avatar
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    BASIC WAGON WHEEL LINING DRILL; 8-bumpers, all small white at about 7-8 feet from center.



    TWO-TIERED WAGON WHEEL LINING DRILL; Same 8 bumpers as before, but with a second tier of all orange bumpers @ about 20 yards.



    The 32-bumper WWLD splits both tiers, and the lines are extremely tight. I don't think it's a dood drill for many dogs. Even with the best application, it's more drill, more stress and worry than most dogs need, or can tolerate well. The distance to the outer (3rd) tier would be quite a bit further that the 2nd; 60 yards or more. The few dogs of the right caliber to benefit from it look pretty impressive sorting it out, though!

    Evan
    "Prepare your dog in such a manner that the work he is normally called upon to do under-whelms him, not overwhelms him." ~ Evan Graham

    “People who say it cannot be done should not interrupt those who are doing it.”

    ― George Bernard Shaw


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    Senior Member JS's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JS View Post
    Feet?? Or yards?

    14 foot diameter would put the bumpers only about 7 or 8 feet from the center.

    JS
    Quote Originally Posted by Evan View Post
    FEET.

    .....

    Evan
    OK. Just clarifying.

    Never seen it done that close. Been a long time since I was at your seminar but it seems like I would have remembered that. Then again, my rememberer isn't as good as it once was.

    JS
    “Don’t wave your phony patriotism in MY face! If you really love America, open your wallet and hire an American kid to build what you buy. Think of all our problems that might solve.” Doug Fraser (paraphrased) 1980

    Real Americans buy American, though it may be too little too late now.



    Snowshoe's All American Guy SH, UDX, WCX ... CODY ... at the bridge
    CH. Snowshoe's Girl Crazy MH, UD, WCX, SDHF, OS ... PRESLEY
    Millpond's Baby Boomer MH*** ... BABE
    Snowshoe's Crazy For Lovin You SH ... NELSON

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    Senior Member Evan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JS View Post
    Then again, my rememberer isn't as good as it once was.

    JS
    Yep! At 66 my 'forgetter' is much better than my 'remberer'!

    Evan
    "Prepare your dog in such a manner that the work he is normally called upon to do under-whelms him, not overwhelms him." ~ Evan Graham

    “People who say it cannot be done should not interrupt those who are doing it.”

    ― George Bernard Shaw


    The Smartwork System for Retriever Training (link)
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